Post-Season Sudden Death Turkey Starts
Posted by Steve Lombardi on November 22, 2010
I was just, pardon the pun, playing around with Play Index trying to find the worst start by a pitcher in a sudden-death post-season game. You know, real "turkeys"...
To that end, I set the filters for: In the Postseason Sudden Death Games, Requiring Game Score <=25 and IP <=2 and I got this short list:
| Rk | Player | Date | Series | Gm# | Tm | Opp | Rslt | App,Dec | IP | H | R | ER | BB | SO | HR | GSc | BF | WPA | RE24 | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Gil Heredia | 2000-10-08 | ALDS | 5 | OAK | NYY | L 5-7 | GS-1 ,L | 0.1 | 4 | 6 | 6 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 17 | 7 | 162.00 | -0.345 | -4.682 | 1.471 |
| 2 | Donovan Osborne | 1996-10-17 | NLCS | 7 | STL | ATL | L 0-15 | GS-1 ,L | 0.2 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 17 | 9 | 81.00 | -0.378 | -5.833 | 1.196 |
| 3 | Ron Darling | 1988-10-12 | NLCS | 7 | NYM | LAD | L 0-6 | GS-2 ,L | 1.0 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 23 | 10 | 36.00 | -0.333 | -4.537 | 1.325 |
| 4 | Bret Saberhagen | 1999-10-11 | ALDS | 5 | BOS | CLE | W 12-8 | GS-2 | 1.0 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 24 | 8 | 45.00 | -0.372 | -4.387 | 1.049 |
| 5 | Kevin Brown | 2004-10-20 | ALCS | 7 | NYY | BOS | L 3-10 | GS-2 ,L | 1.1 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 25 | 9 | 33.75 | -0.212 | -2.530 | .936 |
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That Saberhagen game was the one where Pedro Martinez came out of the Red Sox bullpen and threw a six-inning no-hitter. And, that Kevin Brown game was the one where Derek Lowe threw a six-inning one-hitter against the Yankees - where Pedro Martinez came out of the pen to throw an inning after Lowe.
So, what are the odds of that - only five turkeys on this list and in two of the five Pedro threw in the game twice albeit once for the other team?
November 22nd, 2010 at 12:03 pm
Fun topic as usual.
But why the 2 IP limit? For instance, in that same 1999 ALCS game in which Saberhagen laid a turkey egg (Game Score 24), Charles Nagy had an even worse game score of 17, tied for the worst ever in a sudden-death postseason game. Nagy went 3+ IP, allowing 8 runs (7 ER).
Also, in the same game as Heredia's 1-out debacle, "Big Game Andy" Pettitte had a Game Score of 23; he nearly squandered the 6-0 lead he was handed in the top of the 1st, allowing 5 runs on 10 hits in 3.2 IP, and got bailed out of a jam in the 4th.
November 22nd, 2010 at 12:23 pm
It wasn't a sudden-death game, but the biggest turkey in a postseason finale was turned in by HOFer Mordecai Brown in 1906. Two days after leveling the Series with a 2-hit, 1-0 shutout win, Brown was strafed for 7 runs in 1.2 IP as the "Hitless Wonder" White Sox upset the 116-36 Cubs in 6 games to take the first intra-city World Series.
So, maybe bringing back your ace on 1 day's rest after a CG isn't always a great idea....
November 22nd, 2010 at 1:04 pm
I was a tender young thirteen year old, watching the Cards in the postseason for the first time that I was old enough to care. Up 3 games to 1 and then they got trounced 32-1 one over the next three. I loathe the Braves to this day and still remember how crushed Donovan Osbourne looked when he was pulled from that game.
November 22nd, 2010 at 1:04 pm
I don't mean to monopolize this thread, but I thought the subsequent fate of the 5 pitchers on Steve's list was interesting (if mostly coincidental):
Gil Heredia -- Pitched just 1 more season, with a 5.58 ERA in 110 IP.
Donovan Osborne -- After going 38-31, 3.70 over his first 4 seasons, Osborne went 11-15, 4.96 mark in his last 5 years.
Ron Darling -- Was 73-41, 3.36 before that ’88 disaster; went 63-75, the rest of his career.
Bret Saberhagen -- The BoSox actually won his “turkey start” and advanced to the ALCS, where Sabes made a quality start. But he missed all of the following season, and pitched just 3 more games the rest of his career.
Kevin Brown -- Pitched just 1 more year, going 4-7 with a 6.50 ERA.
November 22nd, 2010 at 1:32 pm
I don't mean to pile onto Adam's pain, but ... Todd Stottlemyre recorded the worst-ever postseason Game Score in game 5 of that 1996 NLCS. Stottlemyre allowed 4 hits and 3 runs before getting an out in the top of the 1st, and was chased after 3 singles to open the 2nd. He allowed 7 runs, all earned, on 9 hits in 1+ IP.
November 22nd, 2010 at 2:45 pm
Speaking of Sabes, what was the game score for Joaquin Andujar in game 7 of '85?
November 22nd, 2010 at 2:46 pm
oh never mind, Andujar lasted more than 2 innings, I believe....
November 22nd, 2010 at 2:48 pm
and now that I've actually looked up the box score, I will try to figure out how I've forgotten so much of that game. eek.
November 22nd, 2010 at 3:54 pm
"So, what are the odds of that - only five turkeys on this list and in two of the five Pedro threw in the game twice albeit once for the other team?"
I am sure you meant this, but the ridiculous part is not that Pedro PITCHED in 2 of the games, it is that he pitched in RELIEF in 2 of the games.
Since 1994, Pedro has only come out of the pen 5 times (INCLUDING his only 2 playoff relief appearances mentioned in the turkey games above).
November 22nd, 2010 at 4:00 pm
Joaquin didn't start game 7 in '85, John Tudor did. Andujar came in relief once things had gotten pretty well out of hand.
November 22nd, 2010 at 4:09 pm
Tudor's GS was 28 by the way; 2.1 IP 3 H 5 R 5 ER 4 BB 1K
November 22nd, 2010 at 4:41 pm
@John Autin: Comparing Darling's W-L record up to 1988 to his record thereafter is apples to oranges. He was a member of 5 90+ win teams through 1988 and only 1 thereafter.
November 22nd, 2010 at 5:46 pm
@12, Stu -- Fair point, and my mistake. I intended to include Darling's before and after ERA, but in editing I accidentally chopped out the "after".
I usually try not to focus attention on pitcher W-L records. I thought this time it served as a useful shorthand, when I just wanted to make a quick point -- I didn't want to go into as much detail as this: "Up to then, Darling had averaged a 105 ERA+ and 228 IP in 5 full seasons; in his next 5 seasons, he had an 89 ERA+ and averaged 184 IP." But I probably should have.
Also, I didn't fully realize how much discrepancy there was between the 1984-88 Mets and the Oakland teams Darling pitched for. I knew he'd been to the playoffs with them in '92, but forgot that they were bad for several years after that.
November 22nd, 2010 at 8:39 pm
Mark Thurmond of the Padres in Game 5 of the '84 series is worth a mention. Game scopre of 29, but allowed 3 runs on 5 hits in only 1/3 of an inning, and only 15 pitches thrown! Could have suffered more damage than that except the Tigers ran themselves out of the inning after Thurmond was yanked.
As a team, the Padres starters that Series must take the Turkey award. Twice knocked out in the 1st inning, once in the 2nd, and once in the 3rd. Their "ace" performance in that series: 5 innings by Thurmond in Game 1, with 3 ER, 3 BB and a 40 game score.
November 22nd, 2010 at 9:31 pm
Not a playoff game, but similarly do-or-die, was the Mets last game of the season in 2007. The Mets were tied with the Phils going into the last day.
Tom Glavine got one batter out and gave up seven runs...game score of 11.
Ack!
November 23rd, 2010 at 8:27 am
Pedro relieved Lowe in both games
November 23rd, 2010 at 8:39 am
Every time I see that line on Kevin Brown, I want to throw up. That guy is officially dead to me.