Comments on: WAR Data: Best Catcher Seasons Since 2000 This and that about baseball stats. Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:01:55 +0000 hourly 1 By: Johnny Twisto Tue, 25 May 2010 16:58:07 +0000 Lawrence, my guess is that it's partly because those guys caught a few less games each season than more recent guys do. And also their "Rpos," which is the number of runs added for playing a tough position, appears to be less than in recent times. I'm not sure why that is; maybe because there were a lot of good catchers at the time so the position was seen as stronger overall?

Nat, it comes from I gotta say, I don't understand his rating of Mauer's '08. If Mauer's '08 hitting was 45 runs above average, how can his '09 be only 57 runs above average? B-R shows adjusted batting runs, which also agrees that Mauer 09 was 57 runs above average, but Mauer 08 at 32. That difference makes more sense, considering he was more than 30 points of OBP and more than 130 pts of SLG better in 09.

By: Lawrence Azrin Tue, 25 May 2010 16:13:09 +0000 "Here's the all-time list. Only 16 player seasons top 7.0:"

DavidRF, is there some sort of bias against pre-WWII catchers?? I do not see Mickey Cochrane, Bill Dickey or Gabby Hartnett listed (I looked them up to check). I just find it hard to believe that ALL the greatest seasons by a catcher happened after 1950...

By: Nat Tue, 25 May 2010 03:50:27 +0000 It's worth noting that FanGraphs has Mauer's 2008 WAR at 5.7, and his 2009 WAR at 8.0. This goes to show that there is not always agreement between different calculations of WAR. Where does the BBref WAR data come from?

By: DavidRF Tue, 25 May 2010 03:09:07 +0000 @10
WAR has components for fielding. I'm not sure how its done... and from what little I know catcher-fielding is especially hard to quantify.

Its in there though. You can check the old Piazza vs. Rodriguez debate as a sanity check. It says that Piazza cost his teams 70 runs over his career while Rodriguez saved 154. That's about a 22 WAR swing between the two players. The two Piazza seasons above didn't quantify that badly somehow. I can't explain why just looking at the SB/CS data. There must be other stuff in the mix as well. And of course, Piazza could really hit.

By: TBD3 Tue, 25 May 2010 02:06:39 +0000 Does WAR account for defense or is it purely based on offense?

By: DavidRF Tue, 25 May 2010 02:00:57 +0000 Here's the all-time list. Only 16 player seasons top 7.0:

1. 9.3 MPiazza-1997
2. 9.1 JBench-1972
3. 8.7 JMauer-2008
4. 8.4 DPorter-1979
5. 7.9 JMauer-2009
6. 7.8 GCarter-1982
7. 7.6 JBench-1974
8. 7.4 DDaulton-1992
9. 7.3 YBerra-1956
10. 7.2 CHoiles-1993
11. 7.2 RCampanella-1953
12. 7.1 CFisk-1972
13. 7.0 JMauer-2006
14. 7.0 MPiazza-1993
15. 7.0 BFreehan-1968
16. 7.0 RCampanella-1951

Pretty good company for Mauer... and a couple of surprises on the list as well.

By: Len Tue, 25 May 2010 00:21:04 +0000 Mauer should have been the MVP in 2006 & 2008.

By: Johnny Twisto Mon, 24 May 2010 22:58:40 +0000 Mike, where are you getting the 7 runs lost?

Neil, I don't believe that WAR's positional replacement levels are based on single-season performance. (Even if they were, a 9-point change in OPS wouldn't make that much difference.) I think WAR sets the "Rpos" (positional scarcity) on a decade-by-decade basis. The other major thing is that Mauer played more than 30 games at DH last year.

By: Frank Clingenpeel Mon, 24 May 2010 21:54:43 +0000 I am really surprised that Pudge Rodriguez' 2006 season didn't rate.

By: Mike Mon, 24 May 2010 21:24:06 +0000 WAR is supposed to be so great because it trys to only show a number that represents things a player has control over (not runs or RBI), yet Mauer gets penalized because Posada is better and "replacement" catchers are better in '09. He lost 7 Runs above average due to these factors which is the entire difference between the 2 seasons. The problem with the whole definition of "replacement level" is why I cannot buy into WAR. For example, in 2009 the Yankees had 54.3 wins - WAR, but the Twins had 52.3 wins - WAR, so I guess a team of replacement players for the Yankees are better than a team of replacement players for the Twins, yet they are supposed to be the players.