Comments on: The Giants’ #8 Hitters

By: Johnny Twisto

Johnny Twisto — Thu, 13 May 2010 17:38:37 +0000

Ahh...well, your knowledge is being remembered, even if your name is not.

By: Kahuna Tuna

Kahuna Tuna — Thu, 13 May 2010 16:37:42 +0000

Here, JT.

By: Johnny Twisto

Johnny Twisto — Thu, 13 May 2010 04:54:28 +0000

Actually singles seem to be down throughout MLB. Don't remember where I saw that....maybe a Raphy comment somewhere on this site?

By: Kahuna Tuna

Kahuna Tuna — Thu, 13 May 2010 01:33:29 +0000

It might be time to do an entry on how bad leadoff hitters have been this season. Compare the 2009 MLB OPS figure for leadoff hitters, .775, with the OPS achieved by AL leadoff hitters so far in 2010: .701. (NL leadoff hitters have put up an OPS of .715 — not much better.) In fact, although MLB leadoff hitters had a 59-point OPS advantage over #8 hitters in 2009, in 2010 the eighth-place hitters have a four-point advantage over the leadoff hitters, .712 to .708! One reason is that AL leadoff hitters almost never hit home runs — only 21 so far, less than all other batting positions except the NL #9 spot. Also, NL leadoff hitters are not hitting singles: despite 63 more PA than #2 hitters, they have five fewer singles than the #2 hitters. Contrast that with the AL, where leadoff hitters have 84 more singles than the #2 hitters.

By: Andy

Andy — Thu, 13 May 2010 00:33:53 +0000

It's certainly always been my instinct that the #8 hitter in the AL is usually the worst hitter in the lineup. No idea if my instinct is correct. Here are the 2009 splits by batting order number:

Split	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	SB	CS	BB	SO	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	TB	GDP	HBP	SF	IBB	tOPS+
Batting 1st	10683	9468	1502	2693	474	80	215	986	437	137	1003	1587	.284	.355	.420	.775	3972	146	70	61	35	104
Batting 2nd	10442	9377	1410	2595	487	70	271	1208	259	73	811	1557	.277	.337	.430	.767	4035	227	84	85	21	101
Batting 3rd	10186	9031	1302	2479	533	28	354	1384	113	28	970	1689	.274	.348	.457	.805	4130	247	93	85	64	110
Batting 4th	9963	8743	1315	2319	477	25	400	1445	115	38	1040	1887	.265	.347	.463	.810	4046	213	100	75	93	112
Batting 5th	9746	8671	1250	2367	468	22	368	1319	99	39	901	1745	.273	.344	.459	.803	3983	201	81	82	56	110
Batting 6th	9531	8522	1168	2261	487	35	339	1175	107	46	859	1748	.265	.335	.450	.785	3835	217	71	63	63	105
Batting 7th	9271	8333	1033	2138	445	43	260	1108	114	52	750	1691	.257	.322	.414	.736	3449	197	82	66	41	93
Batting 8th	9004	8057	1012	2030	403	39	234	1026	116	48	735	1744	.252	.318	.399	.716	3213	207	71	69	30	88
Batting 9th	8703	7763	946	1901	357	46	119	786	181	81	625	1661	.245	.305	.349	.654	2707	162	73	62	6	72

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 5/12/2010.

Looks like I'm wrong, although those #9 hitting stats do include pitchers in interleague games. However I doubt that alone accounts for the 60-some point gap in OPS. Note in particular the huge disparity in intentional walks--although that is probably due mostly to the benefits of facing #8 or #9 in favor of #1. The stolen bases tell a large part of my story. I feel like most AL teams put a young speedster in the #9 slot. This is usually a guy like Roberto Kelly in his early days, who wasn't all that good at getting on base yet but stole a lot of bases. Eventually when his OBP went up some and older players declined, he moved from #9 to #1.

By: DoubleDiamond

DoubleDiamond — Wed, 12 May 2010 23:46:34 +0000

The #8 hitter for an AL team would likely be a better hitter (relatively speaking) than the #8 hitter for an NL team. On the other hand, some AL teams put a fairly decent hitter at #9 and puts the worst hitter at #9 for the same reason that LaRussa puts the pitcher in the #8 slot - to give the top of the order a better chance to drive someone in, even before the pinch hitters and double switched guys take over #9 later in the game.

It might be interesting to compare #8's with #9's in the American League.

By: Raphy

Raphy — Wed, 12 May 2010 21:14:04 +0000

Andy - Sheer coincidence. I heard the Mets' announcers talking about the Giants #8 stats, that's what sparked my curiosity.

By: Vidor

Vidor — Wed, 12 May 2010 21:02:31 +0000

Will be interesting to see where the Cardinals finish there now that TLR's hitting the pitcher 8th again.

By: Andy

Andy — Wed, 12 May 2010 20:59:56 +0000

Funny you should post this given that RBI by #8 hitters was a question in this week's stat challenge.

By: Kahuna Tuna

Kahuna Tuna — Wed, 12 May 2010 20:58:41 +0000

The 1925 Pirates' #8 hitters were their catchers, Earl Smith and Johnny Gooch. Over the team's first 31 games, Smith hit .388/.437/.575 (1.012), with 3 HR and 18 RBI; Gooch hit a much weaker .316/.366/.395 (.761), with no HR and 4 RBI. Throw in one hitless at-bat from Carson Bigbee, and Pirates' #8 hitters had a combined .923 OPS in those 31 games. Smith finished the 1925 season with an .845 OPS (109 OPS+), Gooch with a .730 OPS (82 OPS+), and the Pirates won the World Series.