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	<title>Comments on: It&#8217;s Really Hard To Score A Run When You Strikeout</title>
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	<description>This and that about baseball stats.</description>
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		<title>By: Charles DeLano</title>
		<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/5942/comment-page-1#comment-18572</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Charles DeLano]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 May 2010 19:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-18572</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Johnny Twisto, 

It&#039;s true that a passed ball did result in a series of runs in the 1941 World Series.  However, when Hugh Casey fanned Tommy Henrich and the ball got past Mickey Owen, there were NO men on base.  Hence, Henrich went to first base.  Even with the passed ball, the Dodgers still had a chance to end the game with a 4-3 win.  Then, Charley Keller singled, and Henrich went to second.  Next, Joe DiMaggio doubled and THAT&#039;S when Henrich and Keller scored.  Everyone knows what happened after that.  When I did the 1974 Pirates segment, the passed ball directly resulted in a run scored.  When Owen dropped the ball, the Yanks didn&#039;t score immediately.  The Yanks just took advantage of their second chance.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Johnny Twisto, </p>
<p>It's true that a passed ball did result in a series of runs in the 1941 World Series.  However, when Hugh Casey fanned Tommy Henrich and the ball got past Mickey Owen, there were NO men on base.  Hence, Henrich went to first base.  Even with the passed ball, the Dodgers still had a chance to end the game with a 4-3 win.  Then, Charley Keller singled, and Henrich went to second.  Next, Joe DiMaggio doubled and THAT'S when Henrich and Keller scored.  Everyone knows what happened after that.  When I did the 1974 Pirates segment, the passed ball directly resulted in a run scored.  When Owen dropped the ball, the Yanks didn't score immediately.  The Yanks just took advantage of their second chance.</p>
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		<title>By: DoubleDiamond</title>
		<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/5942/comment-page-1#comment-18476</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DoubleDiamond]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 May 2010 02:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-18476</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A few more things:

1. Runner on first, one out, I&#039;d much rather see the batter strike out than hit into a double play. Of course, the next batter may strike out, too (or hit a long fly ball to the warning track that the outfielder makes a great catch to keep from being a home run or even get a double on which the guy who had been on first gets thrown out at the plate to end the inning).

2. An at-bat that ends with a strikeout involves at least three pitches. If there are runners on base, a lot can happen when these pitches are thrown. Good things for the offensive team include stealing a base, a balk being called, a passed ball, or a wild pitch. The last two can come on one of the earlier pitches, before strike three. Of course, for any of these situations that doesn&#039;t cause a run to score, if that strikeout is the third out, it was only a temporary good thing. But if it was only the first or second out, the runner(s) who advanced is/are that much closer to scoring.

The stat of batting average with runners in scoring position is not always meaningful. Getting a hit with a runner on second doesn&#039;t always score that runner. Conversely, making an out (not the third out, of course) that has a charged at-bat (grounder to the right side) sometimes scores a runner from third. The latter situation also includes some errors and fielders choice situations in which everyone is safe.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few more things:</p>
<p>1. Runner on first, one out, I'd much rather see the batter strike out than hit into a double play. Of course, the next batter may strike out, too (or hit a long fly ball to the warning track that the outfielder makes a great catch to keep from being a home run or even get a double on which the guy who had been on first gets thrown out at the plate to end the inning).</p>
<p>2. An at-bat that ends with a strikeout involves at least three pitches. If there are runners on base, a lot can happen when these pitches are thrown. Good things for the offensive team include stealing a base, a balk being called, a passed ball, or a wild pitch. The last two can come on one of the earlier pitches, before strike three. Of course, for any of these situations that doesn't cause a run to score, if that strikeout is the third out, it was only a temporary good thing. But if it was only the first or second out, the runner(s) who advanced is/are that much closer to scoring.</p>
<p>The stat of batting average with runners in scoring position is not always meaningful. Getting a hit with a runner on second doesn't always score that runner. Conversely, making an out (not the third out, of course) that has a charged at-bat (grounder to the right side) sometimes scores a runner from third. The latter situation also includes some errors and fielders choice situations in which everyone is safe.</p>
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		<title>By: BSK</title>
		<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/5942/comment-page-1#comment-18474</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BSK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 May 2010 02:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-18474</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The issue seems to be people conflating the idea that &quot;strikeouts aren&#039;t as bad as often said and probably no worse in the big picture than other outs&quot; with the idea that &quot;strikeouts are, in the absolute, good!&quot;  Clearly, the latter is not true while it&#039;s quite likely that the former is.  Coupled with some particular modern players who strike out a ton and IN SPITE of these strikeouts (or maybe indirectly because of them with regards to general approach as a hitter) are still remarkably productive, there seems to be a general misconception that the modern SABR approach embraces strikeouts as a positive.  Which I&#039;m pretty sure is NOT true.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue seems to be people conflating the idea that "strikeouts aren't as bad as often said and probably no worse in the big picture than other outs" with the idea that "strikeouts are, in the absolute, good!"  Clearly, the latter is not true while it's quite likely that the former is.  Coupled with some particular modern players who strike out a ton and IN SPITE of these strikeouts (or maybe indirectly because of them with regards to general approach as a hitter) are still remarkably productive, there seems to be a general misconception that the modern SABR approach embraces strikeouts as a positive.  Which I'm pretty sure is NOT true.</p>
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		<title>By: Baseball-Reference Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Consecutive Games with a GIDP</title>
		<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/5942/comment-page-1#comment-18470</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Baseball-Reference Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Consecutive Games with a GIDP]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 May 2010 01:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-18470</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Valdez has quite a GIDP streak going. As Rich, a reader, mentioned in the comments of another thread, Valdez has now hit into a double play in 5 consecutive games (Tonight&#039;s Phillies [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Valdez has quite a GIDP streak going. As Rich, a reader, mentioned in the comments of another thread, Valdez has now hit into a double play in 5 consecutive games (Tonight&#39;s Phillies [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rich</title>
		<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/5942/comment-page-1#comment-18450</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rich]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 May 2010 22:57:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-18450</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As someone who has watched Wilson Valdez GIDP in EACH of the last five games the Phillies have played, I can assure you a non-strikeout out is not preferable. It&#039;s CERTAINLY not preferable to a walk. That&#039;s just asinine. You have 27 outs to work with, so you want to get on base without making an out as often as possible.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who has watched Wilson Valdez GIDP in EACH of the last five games the Phillies have played, I can assure you a non-strikeout out is not preferable. It's CERTAINLY not preferable to a walk. That's just asinine. You have 27 outs to work with, so you want to get on base without making an out as often as possible.</p>
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		<title>By: DoubleDiamond</title>
		<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/5942/comment-page-1#comment-18447</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DoubleDiamond]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 May 2010 22:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-18447</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve joined this conversation late in the day. I thought that these were at-bats that led to the batter eventually coming around to score. So, the dropped third strike situation would be one in which the batter reached first, whether or not anyone scored from third (or even further) on that pitch. Or maybe that batter would eventually be caught stealing second, as happened to Jayson Werth in the Phillies&#039; game against Atlanta on April 20.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I've joined this conversation late in the day. I thought that these were at-bats that led to the batter eventually coming around to score. So, the dropped third strike situation would be one in which the batter reached first, whether or not anyone scored from third (or even further) on that pitch. Or maybe that batter would eventually be caught stealing second, as happened to Jayson Werth in the Phillies' game against Atlanta on April 20.</p>
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		<title>By: Johnny Twisto</title>
		<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/5942/comment-page-1#comment-18439</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Johnny Twisto]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 May 2010 21:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-18439</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The more famous passed ball on a strikeout was the Dodgers vs Yankees in the 1941 World Series.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The more famous passed ball on a strikeout was the Dodgers vs Yankees in the 1941 World Series.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles DeLano</title>
		<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/5942/comment-page-1#comment-18438</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Charles DeLano]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 May 2010 21:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-18438</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Correction: it was not a Reuschel wild pitch; it was a passed ball charged to Swisher.  Nevertheless, a strikeout on a WP/PB does not often lead to a run scoring, much less a division title as the &#039;74 Pirates discovered.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction: it was not a Reuschel wild pitch; it was a passed ball charged to Swisher.  Nevertheless, a strikeout on a WP/PB does not often lead to a run scoring, much less a division title as the '74 Pirates discovered.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles DeLano</title>
		<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/5942/comment-page-1#comment-18437</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Charles DeLano]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 May 2010 21:17:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-18437</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One of the more notable runs scored while a strikeout took place (from my vintage point) took place on October 2, 1974.  The Pirates needed a win to clinch the NL East, but trailed the Cubs, 4-3 in the 9th.  They had Manny Sanguillen on third and two outs when pinch-hitter Bob Robertson faced Rick Reuschel.  On a 2-2 pitch, Reuschel fanned Robertson--except that Steve Swisher, the Cubs&#039; catcher (and father of current Yankees&#039; OF Nick Swisher) let the ball get past him.  As Swisher threw to first to complete the K, his throw hit Robertson in the back.  The ball got away from the Cubs&#039; fielders and Sanguillen scored the tying run.  Then, in the 10th, an infield hit by Sanguillen scored Al Oliver with the run that gave the Bucs the win and the NL East title.  Though the Pirates would go on to fall to the Dodgers in the NLCS, it is interesting to talk about how a strikeout led to a rare run, or even microscopic, a division title.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the more notable runs scored while a strikeout took place (from my vintage point) took place on October 2, 1974.  The Pirates needed a win to clinch the NL East, but trailed the Cubs, 4-3 in the 9th.  They had Manny Sanguillen on third and two outs when pinch-hitter Bob Robertson faced Rick Reuschel.  On a 2-2 pitch, Reuschel fanned Robertson--except that Steve Swisher, the Cubs' catcher (and father of current Yankees' OF Nick Swisher) let the ball get past him.  As Swisher threw to first to complete the K, his throw hit Robertson in the back.  The ball got away from the Cubs' fielders and Sanguillen scored the tying run.  Then, in the 10th, an infield hit by Sanguillen scored Al Oliver with the run that gave the Bucs the win and the NL East title.  Though the Pirates would go on to fall to the Dodgers in the NLCS, it is interesting to talk about how a strikeout led to a rare run, or even microscopic, a division title.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan</title>
		<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/5942/comment-page-1#comment-18429</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Evan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 May 2010 20:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-18429</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Johnny stole some of my thunder a bit, but I&#039;m not sure I agree with him regarding rules/parameter changes to decrease strikeouts. Giving the batter incentives to hit the ball is the best way (in my opinion) to reduce strikeouts, e.g. reducing the size and quality of gloves, shortening the distances between bases, but these help turn strikeouts into hits.

Counterintuitive as it might seem, increasing the size of the strike zone might decrease strikeouts. It would decrease the likelihood that the batter would receive a walk and decrease his expectation of receiving a &quot;fat pitch&quot; on subsequent offerings.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Johnny stole some of my thunder a bit, but I'm not sure I agree with him regarding rules/parameter changes to decrease strikeouts. Giving the batter incentives to hit the ball is the best way (in my opinion) to reduce strikeouts, e.g. reducing the size and quality of gloves, shortening the distances between bases, but these help turn strikeouts into hits.</p>
<p>Counterintuitive as it might seem, increasing the size of the strike zone might decrease strikeouts. It would decrease the likelihood that the batter would receive a walk and decrease his expectation of receiving a "fat pitch" on subsequent offerings.</p>
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