Comments on: Damon Joins the 200-400 Club

By: Matt Y

Matt Y — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 18:38:10 +0000

To whoever mentioned Luis Gonzalez above, it's pretty clear he was a "juicer" IMO. He went from a rail that had 14HR power to a bulked up 40-50+ HR guy coinciding with peak steroid era. More of a sustained Brady Anderson type IMO.

By: Matt Y

Matt Y — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 16:54:25 +0000

And yes, I would argue that it was Damon's heart that made him take extra batting practice before games 5 and 6 of the ALCS (that series actually went 6 games, NOT 7) that helped propel him to a .364/.440/.455/.895 WS. In fact, before Matsui's big game 6, Damon would have won the MVP of the WS. A-rod was the MVP of the playoffs, but did only bat .250 in the WS.

By: Matt Y

Matt Y — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 16:26:36 +0000

@93: FWIW: No, not from Philly, just a diehard baseball fan since early 70's. He's pretty much had the same knock on him wherever he's been. You can look at the numbers all you want, and yes the numbers matter, BUT, there's also more than just the numbers. According to WAR Vlad (59.0) and Abreu (59.0) have exactly same WAR (in same number of seasons), but there's a huge difference between the players IMO. One is a HoFer that will get in b/w years 5-12, and the other will struggle to stay on ballot after the first year......and, that seems about right.

By: Matt Y

Matt Y — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 16:17:43 +0000

I get your point, playing 150+ games is nice, he's a nice player, but I've never seen a major leaguer more scared of a fence than Abreu. The guy would pull up 25-30 ft from any wall. Maybe it's unfair to hold it against him, but still. Also, managers have wanted at times to bat him second, and he would complain and insist hitting 3rd or 4th even though his power was marginal for 3-4th......even in his prime his power was marginal IMO. He's a very solid player that seemed more interested in "his" numbers.....and, hence is why he insisted on batting 3-4th or would never risk injury near a fence.

By: Paul E

Paul E — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 18:43:23 +0000

Matty #91: it's major league basebal-not 14th century castle sieges.... You want "heart"? How about a major league record 13 consecutive season of 150 games played? Yeah, that's right - Bobby Abreu. And if you don't thinkl that took "heart", how else would you explain the failure of every other major leaguer other than Willie Mays to do it. You must be from Philadelphia I guess it was "heart" that made Damon come through in 2004 after all those prior shitty AB's ( 3 for 29) in the ALCS before Game 7

By: Matt Y

Matt Y — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 18:28:29 +0000

One of the biggest difference IMO (yes opinion) between Abreu and Damon was that Abreu always seemed to care more about himself, and Damon always seemed to just want to win....yes, as unscientific that might sound, I think there's some truth to it, and it matters when constructing a team. Don't get me wrong, Abreu is a fine player, but a fine player that is greatly overrated here at this site. I know the arguments, how can you say he's selfish with all those walks.

By: Matt Y

Matt Y — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 18:24:38 +0000

I did address dWAR being involved Hawk. And my point is BB are a bit overrated, in that Morgan, as great as he was, had some "warts" the last 7 years. His warts were covered up a bit more b/c of his BB's. And Paul, you can take 9 Abreu's without heart, and you'll never win a championship. Heart matters, and it often matters most in the most critical spots.

By: Paul E

Paul E — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 14:50:27 +0000

@89 Matty I'll argue with you that "dWAR" is inaccurate and the greatest offensive force in baseball is a patient hitter (BB) with power who makes contact. I'll take Abreu and his lack of heart (and .400 OBA) and you take Damon with that girlfriend arm. We've got a gazillion metrics in the "SABR metric" community to evaluate offensive performance and they all concur on the strengths and weaknesses of hitters and how to evaluate offensive performance. Unfortunately, we are not as far along on the defensive side (UZR, Range Factor, dWAR, 'defensive' Win Shares, when it comes to a consensus. I'll say it again, Ryan Howard is a horrible 1B, yet he's considered far superior by "dWar" to Prince Fielder. How? Howard became the first 1B ever to lead his team in errors - AND he did it three consecutive years.... BTW, there are no warts on Joe Morgan

By: Matt Y

Matt Y — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 13:17:34 +0000

Sure, take out his (Morgan) one last good season of 5.1 WAR, and his avg drops to ~.241, but he still managed to average 2+ WAR a year. I'll say it again that WAR is the single best metric, but if it wasn't for WAR (inflated by his BB's), Abreu wouldn't even be discussed as a potential HoFer. Sure, fine, he should be in the discussion, but no more than, nice player, seems to lack heart, definitively not a HoFer or even borderline HoFer.

By: hawk

hawk — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 13:11:12 +0000

You left out the part where defense is accounted for in WAR. His oWAR stayed above 3 most of those years, which isn't overly great, but not a drain on his team by any means.