Comments on: The Nationals’ 7-year, $126 million mistake: Jayson Werth http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14562 This and that about baseball stats. Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:01:55 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: Mike L http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14562/comment-page-1#comment-144832 Fri, 02 Sep 2011 13:40:16 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14562#comment-144832 Thanks Andy. There's a lot of great stuff here, and I'm glad I found the site. BTW, John A, that link at @75 was like watching an old Odd Couple or Honeymooners-all the great jokes making you laugh all over again. And, I'm sure all of us hope that the damage to Pavano's Porsche was covered by insurance. Wouldn't have wanted him to go out of pocket...

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By: Andy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14562/comment-page-1#comment-144824 Fri, 02 Sep 2011 13:08:17 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14562#comment-144824 JA @75, thanks for linking to that. Those stories never get old.

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By: Andy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14562/comment-page-1#comment-144823 Fri, 02 Sep 2011 13:05:26 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14562#comment-144823 Mike, good points. I have really been enjoying reading your comments since you became a regular here.

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By: Mike L http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14562/comment-page-1#comment-144819 Fri, 02 Sep 2011 13:00:29 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14562#comment-144819 Andy @87. I agree that the Red Sox and Yankees like to drive up the price on each other, and maybe that happened in Pavano's case, although why Cincy would care seems a little odd. Epstein and Cashman have a lot of money and can afford busts, and for all their teams' successes, both have had them. I still think Theo is the shrewdest operator in the game. He leverages big money, great contacts with other teams, (mostly) very good talent evaluation, and timely help from the Commissioner's office when needed.
Pavano wasn't a great pitcher when he was offered a great pitcher contract. And Werth wasn't a great player when he was offered the moon. We agree, both were lousy deals. At least Pavano provides (painful) comic relief.

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By: Asher Chancey http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14562/comment-page-1#comment-144801 Fri, 02 Sep 2011 11:40:05 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14562#comment-144801 @74:

"Writing for ESPN makes you a professional."

"Writing for Bleacher Report makes wish you were writing for ESPN."

Actually, Chuck, and I'll give you this one without any requisite deposits, writing for any publication that pays you makes you a professional. It could be ESPN or it could be the Gloucester County-Times. And, yes Bleacher Report does actually employ a cadre of professional writers, though 99% of people on the site are not professionals.

Many of them are like me, attorneys who like to write about sports in their spare time and are looking for an outlet.

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By: Asher Chancey http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14562/comment-page-1#comment-144800 Fri, 02 Sep 2011 11:36:02 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14562#comment-144800 @67:

"For you sabermetric guys who don't think lineups affect performance, your poster child is Jayson Werth."

What sabrmetric guys don't think lineups affect performance?

I think, though I do not know for sure, that most sabrmetricians absolutely understand that lineups affect performance.

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By: Andy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14562/comment-page-1#comment-144790 Fri, 02 Sep 2011 10:51:47 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14562#comment-144790 @71 Mike L:

I don't agree with you. First of all, there's no saying that the Yankees were the only dumb team. Just because Pavano had multiple suitors, doesn't mean that he deserved such a large contract.

The other issue is that we fans tend to take these contract offers at face value. There are two truths that most fans do not realize, I think: 1) when a team offers a contract, they often know what another team has offered or will offer, thanks to the friendships that most GMs and assistant GMs share and 2) many contract offers are made with no intent or hope of actually signing the player.

Point #2 is pursuant to comment 23 above regarding the Red Sox's offers to Pedro and Damon, as well as the Phillies' offer to Werth. It has been pretty well-established (put $100 in my PayPal account and I'll tell you by whom, LOL 🙂 ) that neither team actually wanted those players. They made offers to show their fan base that they were being loyal to fan-favorite players, knowing full well that the offers were too low and that the players would walk.

Teams also sometimes make contract offers with the express intent of driving up the price for another team. The Red Sox and Yankees did this to each other a few times before realizing that since neither team really has a payroll limit, all they were doing was pushing up player salaries. This strategy would be more effective if there were a salary cap. Nevertheless, it has happened a lot.

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By: Andy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14562/comment-page-1#comment-144785 Fri, 02 Sep 2011 10:30:50 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14562#comment-144785 True, though, that JA, The English Professor himself, didn't correct me 🙂

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By: Andy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14562/comment-page-1#comment-144784 Fri, 02 Sep 2011 10:30:21 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14562#comment-144784 Low...lo...I never even say that, so I don't know why I wrote it into the post. One of Sean's rules for the blog is to always proofread, and by now you guys have probably figured out that I rarely do, hence lots of little typos. I have only so much time...!

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By: Biff http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14562/comment-page-1#comment-144757 Fri, 02 Sep 2011 09:24:44 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14562#comment-144757 @83

Apparently, Jason or Jayson doesn't matter. Add Werth to the growing list of Jasons (y) that don't/ won't live up to the multiyear 10+ mill a season contracts they get signed to. Bay, Giambi (not as quite as dreadful but no superhero), Kendall, Schmidt, and now Werth,

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