Comments on: Shhh….Andruw Jones is slugging again….but don’t tell anyone! This and that about baseball stats. Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:01:55 +0000 hourly 1 By: Asher Chancey Wed, 31 Aug 2011 19:44:18 +0000 Has this turned into an Andruw Jones for the Hall of Fame debate?

Because my position would be unequivocally Yes.

Interestingly, if you look at his career, it is kind of the reverse of Roberto Clemente's career.

Clemente got off to a terrible start, with five suck offensive years, before becoming one of the best offensive players in baseball, while Jones got off to a great start but seems destined to end his career on a run of five (or more) suck years.

But Jones, like Clemente, has been one of the greatest defenders of all time, and I believe that who a player is for the meaningful part of his career should not be trumped by the dregs at the beginning or end of his career.

By: mosc Wed, 31 Aug 2011 16:27:22 +0000 Can it be mentioned at least once in this thread that he has a cannon of an arm? I guess I'll have to do it at #60.

The thing that bothers you about andruw is that he's always out of shape. Seemingly the only thing between him and the hall is effort. The guy has all the talent in the world. That's not something you typically say about the best defensive player of his era.

By: Asher Chancey Wed, 31 Aug 2011 14:22:38 +0000 Well, I am not sure Andy was saying that Andruw Jones has been performing just above league average for a right-handed batter. I believe his point was that he is slugging again.

And my point is, he is succeeding because he is being put in a position in which he can succeed. Those numbers would plummet if he were an everyday player.

I will admit to being surprised at how good those splits actually were when compared to league average, though. That was an excellent point.

By: Jimbo Wed, 31 Aug 2011 02:33:34 +0000 I think he failed to realize that in this season, a season of low offensive numbers, those slashes that looked weak in past years are actually good.

By: Jesse Wed, 31 Aug 2011 01:06:06 +0000 "Andruw Jones' wonderful numbers appear to be products of his usage:

He has 42 plate appearances against righties this season, during which he is .189/.286/.432."

Which is good for a 718 OPS or a 105 sOPS+; which means he better than the average righty vs RHP

"He has 89 plate appearances on the road this year, during which he is .200/.326/.413."

which is a 739 OPS good for a 110 sOPs again better than league average.

Does not sound like a terribly useful hitter to me.


Seeing how your tossing out his worst numbers to show he's better than average and the fact he has been crushing lefties the last two years, seems more than useful.

By: Asher Chancey Wed, 31 Aug 2011 00:56:46 +0000 To Mr. Sparkle (23), I will say that it has been very wise of Joe Girardi to put Jones in positions in which he can succeed.

At the same time, you have to admit that, at this point, those positions are pretty limited.

By: Asher Chancey Wed, 31 Aug 2011 00:50:48 +0000 Responding to Dobbs (20), I think Jones is doing splendidly in his role.

Andy's tone seems to imply that Jones is "back," and well I don't see it.

We don't want Jones to be Willie Mays, but pretending that he is Andruw Jones again also seems inaccurate.

By: Asher Chancey Wed, 31 Aug 2011 00:49:04 +0000 Hey Andy (Post 18):

I guess my point was, most games are at night, most pitchers are right handed, most players hit well at home and most game-changing situations come in the late innings.

I wasn't trying to harangue you or anything.


By: Dennis Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:48:49 +0000 The Yankees lets Berkman go and signed Jones. Berkman signed with the Cards for 8,000,000 and Jones cost 2,000,000.

Sometines the nunbers that mnatter are not slashes.......they are salaries. For 2,000,000 Jones is a decent value, certainly more then the 2,000,000 that the Mariners paid for Griffey s 1 home run and seven RBis in his last season.

Uness Jones turns his career around and starts for someone and puts up mumbers, he isnt going to last more then couuple of years on the BBWA ballot for Cooiperstown. Close to 400 or a bit more thne 400 HRS are not HOF guarantees anymore.....Dale Murphy, Dwight Evans, Jason Giamabi, Jim Edmonds, Joe carter, Juan Gonzales all come to mind..

For a decade, Jones may have been one of the best CFers who ever lived....hjis career is now in the useful sub phase.

Of the players I mentionend, I would like to see Dewey Evans in the HOF......For me and Im 58, he s in the holy trinity of right field along with Kaline and s shameful that after 19 years with the Red Sox, they didnt retire Deweys number 24. . And the argument, that we only put HOFers on the wall in Fenway doesnt because Johnny Pesly s number was retired.....

And an interesting question much lefdt does Berkman have at age t 35? Can he put up enough numbers to justify a HOF election?

By: Lawrence Azrin Tue, 30 Aug 2011 20:35:35 +0000 @51/ Nightfly - OZZIE SMITH's OFFENSIVE VALUE:

If you include baserunning/basestealing in his offensive value, from 1981 to 1996 (end-of-career) Ozzie was about league-average, according to WAR. From 1984-1996, he was about league-average just based on batting WAR. It's those first six years that drag him down.

For total offensive value, I would say that Maranville, Schalk, and Maz were the weakest HOFers. Of course, we don't have full baserunning info for the first two.