Comments on: Franchise-to-Franchise Trade History – This and that about baseball stats. Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:01:55 +0000 hourly 1 By: Johnny Twisto Thu, 21 Jul 2011 02:07:50 +0000 I wonder whose testimony Kefauver enjoyed more, Stengel's or Frank Costello's.

By: Phil Haberkorn in Indiana Wed, 20 Jul 2011 21:18:49 +0000 Reply to post #38 Kahuna Tuna: in the wake of the McCarthy hearings, Congress was still embroiled in rooting out Commies instead of the Kansas City A's, but I did find this quote ( from those anti-trust hearings. They weren't specifically looking at the Yankees-A's relationship, but one of their expert witnesses kind of touched base with them on the subject. . .

"Senator Kefauver: One further question, and then I will pass the other Senators. How many players do the Yankees control, Mr. Stengel?

Mr. Stengel: Well, I will tell you: I hire the players and if they make good with me I keep them without criticism from my ownership. I do not know how many players they own as I am not a scout and I cannot run a ball club during the daytime and be busy at night and up the next day and find out how many players that the Yankees own. If you get any official with the Yankees that is here, why he could give you the names.

By: Daily Links – Hump Day Edition | Red Sox Hub Wed, 20 Jul 2011 14:07:36 +0000 [...] amazing Sean Foreman has created a tool at that lets you look up trade history between two teams. There goes your afternoon, [...]

By: charles Wed, 20 Jul 2011 13:12:38 +0000 @ 39 The first 3 games of the six were close with either 1 or 2 runs difference. The last 3 games were decided by 4 or more, but the Yankees were on a roll in the midst of an 11 game winning streak and they left their starting rotation intact for the second set of 3 games. They were 24-9 in their September and October losing at least one game to all the teams they played except the Athletics. They did not play Boston, Chicago and Baltimore. They only won 4 of the last 8 after the 11 game streak. One more loss and they would have tied Chicago. They were 8-10 vs Baltimore and 12-6 vs the White Sox. On Sept. 3 they were 4 games behind Chicago and 3 behind Baltimore. They eliminated Baltimore on Oct.2, Chicago on Oct. 3 and finished on Oct. 4.

Chicago finished 18-10 (7-0 vs Athletics) to finish 1 game back, winning their last 9.
Baltimore finished 18-13 (3-3 vs Athletics) to finish 2 games back, winning 7 of the last 8.

By: Charles Wed, 20 Jul 2011 11:30:43 +0000 The Athletics had 4 winning seasons from 1947 to 1955, 0 from 1956 to 1964. Yankees had 18

From 1968 to 1976 Athletics had 9 winning seasons, 5 playoffs, 3 WS
From 1968 to 1976 Yankees had 7 winnining seasons, 1 playoff

By: Charles Wed, 20 Jul 2011 11:24:46 +0000 TEAM PCT 1947-55 PCT 1956-64
Athletics 0.657 0.731
Senators/Twins 0.689 0.635
Indians 0.561 0.626
Red Sox 0.558 0.610
White Sox 0.626 0.588
Browns/Orioles 0.753 0.538
Tigers 0.596 0.522

By: John Q Tue, 19 Jul 2011 21:37:55 +0000 @37 Cyril,

Well in 1964 Boyer and Terry were pretty terrible so you can take them off. Maris like you said had a 4.3 WAR.

1964 was very tight race with the Yankees only winning by 1 game. Without Maris they're about 3 games back behind the White Sox and the Orioles. Could they have gotten someone with at least a 3 war to play rf? Maybe but it would have cost them.

The crux of the problem with getting players like Maris, Terry, and Boyer the way they did is that it didn't cost the Yankees anything. If they wanted Maris in a fair deal, then it would have cost them legitimate prospects. If they had made the mistake of trading Terry to another team, then they wouldn't have been able to get him back for nothing.

With the arrangements they had with each other who knows if the Yankee-A's games were even on the level all the time. For instance, the Yankees played the A's 6 times in September of 1964. Going into the month, the Yankees were in 3rd place, they ended up going 6-0 against the A's. It's not even that the A's were good, they were a terrible team but an arrangement like that opens a lot of questions.

By: Kahuna Tuna Tue, 19 Jul 2011 21:06:54 +0000 But baseball is exempt from anti-trust regulations because it's not a business, according to the lawyers, so beyond the commissioner, who could have done much about the situation anyway?

Congress, by holding hearings in 1958 to examine whether to allow MLB to keep its antitrust exemption. Also the magnates who drew up the plans for the Continental League. The two main consequences of these events, expansion and the amateur draft, seem pretty tame to us today, but they at least forced the Yankees to operate under some of the same uncertainties faced by the other American League franchises.

do you figure a stronger commissioner would have called the Yankees on their dealings?

I wasn't asked, but I think a stronger commissioner should have disbanded the Yankees franchise at the end of the 1965 season, transferred the Mets to the AL, awarded an expansion NL franchise to Seattle, and arranged for the Beatles to purchase Yankee Stadium as a concert venue.

By: Cyril Morong Tue, 19 Jul 2011 20:33:24 +0000 Here are how many games ahead the Yankees finished from 1960-64


In 1964, Maris had 4.2 WAR. Could they have found that in another player if they did not have him? Might be interesting to look at who was traded, who else they had that could have been in RF. But 1964 sure looks like a year it could have mattered

By: Phil Haberkorn in Indiana Tue, 19 Jul 2011 20:05:41 +0000 Follow-up to my post #13 re: Yanks-A's trades, which seems to have generated some debate here. My point was that, at the time these deals were going on, there were rumors of something improper, but I don't recall any real reportage of it until years later when books started coming out. The commissioner, Ford Frick, was basically a National League guy, and yes, Yankee power may have been an intimadting factor. Also keep in mind that sportswriters probably left the story alone because Frick was a former sportswriter, and they wouldn't want to make him look bad. They even named a Hall of Fame award for him later on. It wasn't just the trades, it was the connections at the ownership-management level that stunk. And keep in mind that the commissioner is hired by the owners. But baseball is exempt from anti-trust regulations because it's not a business, according to the lawyers, so beyond the commissioner, who could have done much about the situation anyway?