Comments on: Pitchers batting 8th

By: Johnny Twisto

Johnny Twisto — Tue, 06 May 2008 20:08:54 +0000

After all, Kent is probably the best hitting 2B of all time. Thom Brennaman told me that.

By: David in Toledo

David in Toledo — Mon, 05 May 2008 20:12:11 +0000

Very interesting, wboenig2. I assume J. Kendall’s leadoff number might be higher if not for his terrible 1999 ankle break. Maybe Hornsby or Lajoie might have batted cleanup a good bit back in olden times.

By: wboenig2

wboenig2 — Mon, 05 May 2008 16:38:08 +0000

I should have added that the above data was generated on this website and only goes back to 1956.

By: wboenig2

wboenig2 — Mon, 05 May 2008 16:37:16 +0000

I did some light research once in which I tried to relate a player’s defensive position to the probability of him occupying each spot in the batting order. Pitchers aside, we have recently been witness to two other players who have been anomalies in their combinations of position on the field and position in the batting order. They are:

Jason Kendall batting leadoff as a catcher: 447 times; no one else has done this more than 52 times

Jeff Kent batting fourth as a second baseman: 1249 times; no one else has done this more than 132 times

By: David in Toledo

David in Toledo — Sun, 04 May 2008 22:02:18 +0000

I had my facts wrong with regard to the report cited in comment 5, above.

Bobby Bragan was the Pirates’s manager all year in 1956. After trying the idea once in July, on August 18 he started batting the pitcher 7th (for 20 straight games), his theory being to put his best hitter up first, 2nd best hitter second, etc. Two table-setters (the 7th and 8th best hitters, according to the theory) hit 8th and 9th. The Pirates’s record in those 20 games was 8-11 and a tie, or .421. Their record with a standard batting order was .429.

By: David in Toledo

David in Toledo — Sun, 04 May 2008 03:17:02 +0000

Since 1956, only once has a genuine starting pitcher batted 6th or higher: Gary Peters for the White Sox, May 26, 1968. He went 0 for 2. Peters, whose career average was .222, pinch-hit in 77 games.

Since 1956, there have been 45 instances when a position player — originally batting somewhere higher than 9th — was sent to the mound as a reliever. Want to guess how many times his team won the game?

Once. (Well, on August 13, 1958, Rocky Colavito pitched the last three [no-hit] innings of a 3-2 loss.) The winning team was Detroit on October 1, 2000 (12-ll, featuring Shane Halter). Halter played every position, faced only one batter and walked him, but was 4 for 5 batting 8th.

On September 22, 1968, Cesar Tovar also played every position and his Minnesota Twins won, 2-1. Tovar started his game and pitched a hitless first inning, reached base twice as the leadoff hitter, and stole a base.

By: David in Toledo

David in Toledo — Sun, 04 May 2008 02:26:33 +0000

Pitchers have batted 7th. Check out this report:

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/N9wj

By: Andy

Andy — Sun, 04 May 2008 01:59:06 +0000

Heh!

By: spartanbill

spartanbill — Sun, 04 May 2008 00:19:08 +0000

Oh jeez I just realized the pitcher was listed in the 1st column and the batter second.

Never Mind.

By: spartanbill

spartanbill — Sun, 04 May 2008 00:17:41 +0000

Andy

I hate to point out this chart has some flaws. A couple of the games listed in the chart actually contradict the box scores. Sammy Ellis and the 3 AB by Jim Maloney for example.

The game thatlists McDaniel and Warner is doubly wrong as those pitchers did not bat for the Cubs, but Billy Odell had a single in the 8 hole for the Braves.

There may be other examples too.