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	<title>Comments on: Bert Blyleven versus the Hall of Fame</title>
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	<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/448</link>
	<description>This and that about baseball stats.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 09:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: #295 Bert Blyleven &#124; Baseball Card Blogs</title>
		<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/448#comment-4283</link>
		<dc:creator>#295 Bert Blyleven &#124; Baseball Card Blogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:20:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/448#comment-4283</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;ve written tons about Blyleven over at the Stat of the Day blog. Check it out here, here, here, here, and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;ve written tons about Blyleven over at the Stat of the Day blog. Check it out here, here, here, here, and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David in Toledo</title>
		<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/448#comment-2474</link>
		<dc:creator>David in Toledo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 01:27:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/448#comment-2474</guid>
		<description>The following is based on Bill James's Win Shares (Stats, 2002).

I take the following win shares totals to be Hall of Fame career-total presumption-carriers, by position.  After each number, I name someone who is just over the bar, and someone else who is just under it.  1b, 365 (Willie Stargell, 370 or Harmon Killebrew, 371; Tony Perez, 349).  2b, 335 (Ryne Sandberg, 349 or Robby Alomar, 345; Bobby Grich, 329).  3b, 350 (Brooks Robinson, 356; Ron Santo, 324).  SS, 320 (Ozzie Smith, 325 or Barry Larkin, 320; Alan Trammell, 318).  LF, 380 (Tim Raines, 390; Billy Williams, 374).  CF, 350 (Duke Snider, 352 or Max Carey, 351; Richie Ashburn, 329).  RF, 365 (Roberto Clemente, 377; Rusty Staub, 358 or Dwight Evans, 347).  C, 300 (Bill Dickey, 314 or Ivan Rodriguez, 312; Mickey Cochrane, 275 or Bill Freehan, 267).  DH, 400 (Frank Thomas, 401; Edgar Martinez, c. 295).  SP, 300 (Bert Blyleven, 339 or Tom Glavine, 314; Tommy John, 289 or John Smoltz, 285).  Relief pitchers, consideration postponed.

Are my cutoffs arbitrary?  Yes.  Do they comport with common sense?  You decide.  Note that I defined them as "presumption-carriers."  That is, if a player is over the bar, he deserves admission unless a good argument can be made against him.  If a player is under the bar, he shouldn't get in unless a good case can be made for him.

For example, Ron Santo.  Brooks Robinson played in 2900 games, including a full season at age 38 (batting .201).  Santo played in only 2243 games, did not play after age 34, and the 15 years he played were with early-onset diabetes.  Given a few more years, Santo would have easily reached 350 win shares.

Whatever you think of this starting place for argument, I figure the idea has some pertinence to Hall of Fame voting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The following is based on Bill James&#8217;s Win Shares (Stats, 2002).</p>
<p>I take the following win shares totals to be Hall of Fame career-total presumption-carriers, by position.  After each number, I name someone who is just over the bar, and someone else who is just under it.  1b, 365 (Willie Stargell, 370 or Harmon Killebrew, 371; Tony Perez, 349).  2b, 335 (Ryne Sandberg, 349 or Robby Alomar, 345; Bobby Grich, 329).  3b, 350 (Brooks Robinson, 356; Ron Santo, 324).  SS, 320 (Ozzie Smith, 325 or Barry Larkin, 320; Alan Trammell, 318).  LF, 380 (Tim Raines, 390; Billy Williams, 374).  CF, 350 (Duke Snider, 352 or Max Carey, 351; Richie Ashburn, 329).  RF, 365 (Roberto Clemente, 377; Rusty Staub, 358 or Dwight Evans, 347).  C, 300 (Bill Dickey, 314 or Ivan Rodriguez, 312; Mickey Cochrane, 275 or Bill Freehan, 267).  DH, 400 (Frank Thomas, 401; Edgar Martinez, c. 295).  SP, 300 (Bert Blyleven, 339 or Tom Glavine, 314; Tommy John, 289 or John Smoltz, 285).  Relief pitchers, consideration postponed.</p>
<p>Are my cutoffs arbitrary?  Yes.  Do they comport with common sense?  You decide.  Note that I defined them as &#8220;presumption-carriers.&#8221;  That is, if a player is over the bar, he deserves admission unless a good argument can be made against him.  If a player is under the bar, he shouldn&#8217;t get in unless a good case can be made for him.</p>
<p>For example, Ron Santo.  Brooks Robinson played in 2900 games, including a full season at age 38 (batting .201).  Santo played in only 2243 games, did not play after age 34, and the 15 years he played were with early-onset diabetes.  Given a few more years, Santo would have easily reached 350 win shares.</p>
<p>Whatever you think of this starting place for argument, I figure the idea has some pertinence to Hall of Fame voting.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/448#comment-2454</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/448#comment-2454</guid>
		<description>I just noticed from above that Gaylord Perry homered off Blyleven. I looked it up, and Perry hit 6 career homers: 1 each off of Bert, Nino Espinoza, Bill Hands, Claude Osteen, Dick Ruthven, and Mike Wegener.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just noticed from above that Gaylord Perry homered off Blyleven. I looked it up, and Perry hit 6 career homers: 1 each off of Bert, Nino Espinoza, Bill Hands, Claude Osteen, Dick Ruthven, and Mike Wegener.</p>
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