Comments on: Lincecum vs. Halladay: Best playoff matchup in history? http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8708 This and that about baseball stats. Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:01:55 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: 10 numbers for the NLCS: Phillies vs. Giants http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8708/comment-page-1#comment-61907 Tue, 19 Oct 2010 22:20:58 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=8708#comment-61907 [...] who were playoff virgins until last week, when each twirled a shutout that ranked among the five most dominant postseason starts of all time. It stands to reason that, by Sunday morning, at least one of them will have a less [...]

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By: Phil Dellio http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8708/comment-page-1#comment-61155 Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:08:40 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=8708#comment-61155 Seaver's WS match-ups (two of which are mentioned above) rank near the top for me: he faced Cuellar twice in '69 (I know Cuellar wasn't a Hall of Famer, but '69 was the beginning of a pretty stellar six-year run) and Catfish twice in '73, when probably the greatest pitcher of the '70s and one of the greatest were both at their peak.

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By: dodgerdave http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8708/comment-page-1#comment-61122 Sat, 16 Oct 2010 07:12:44 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=8708#comment-61122 Hershiser vs. Gooden in the 1988 NLCS was a good matchup to get all hyped up about.

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By: leatherman http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8708/comment-page-1#comment-61079 Sat, 16 Oct 2010 01:45:05 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=8708#comment-61079 What about game 7 of the 1985 World Series? John Tudor vs Bret Saberhagen. Tudor finished 2nd in NL CY voting, going 21-8 with a 1.93 ERA and an amazing 10 shutouts. The reason he finished 2nd: this was Dwight Gooden's 24-4 season when he had a 1.53 ERA and 268 Ks. Saberhagen was the AL CY winner, going 20-6 with a 2.87 ERA and 10 CG.

It is forgotten for two reasons:
1. It was one day after Don Denkinger blew the call at first base, allowing the Royals to score 2 runs in the 9th to tie the series at 3-3.
2. The game was a blowout. Saberhagen tossed a 5 hit shutout, walking none, as the Royals went on to win 11-0, with Saberhagen taking home the WS MVP honors. Tudor didn't make it through the 3rd inning, giving up 5 runs in 2 1/3 innings. Tudor had been superb in his other two World Series starts (both wins), giving up just 1 run in 6 2/3 innings in game 1, and then tossing a 5 hit shutout of his own in game 4.

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By: Kahuna Tuna http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8708/comment-page-1#comment-61044 Fri, 15 Oct 2010 21:29:57 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=8708#comment-61044 Halladay against the Giants, career: 0-2, 7.23 ERA.

Sure, I know it's only three starts. Still . . .

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By: Lawrence Azrin http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8708/comment-page-1#comment-61013 Fri, 15 Oct 2010 17:50:42 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=8708#comment-61013 #38/birtelcom Says: "Lawrence: Matty's spectacular 1905 World Series (three shutouts in the five game Series) still comes up pretty darn well with Game Score."

Yes, Matty still looks great on Games Scores, but he'd look even greater if K's were adjusted by era: in 1905, NL pitchers had 3.7 K/9 innings, in 2010 they had 7.4 K/9 innings; exactly twice the rate of 1905. Double the K's and Matty's GS's would be somwhat comparable to the GS of Halladay and Lincecum. I know you can't do this for all pitchers, but it helps in specific game-to-game comparisons. I am also aware that the hit, walk, and run rates also vary (but not as much as the K's).

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By: birtelcom http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8708/comment-page-1#comment-61003 Fri, 15 Oct 2010 17:20:26 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=8708#comment-61003 Lawrence: Matty's spectacular 1905 World Series (three shutouts in the five game Series) still comes up pretty darn well with Game Score. Despite the much longer post-seasons these days, he is still, 105 years later, the only pitcher to have three games with a Game Score over 80 in one post-season. The only pitcher with more than three post-season Game Scores over 80 in his career is Bob Gibson with four.

It was after all,a pretty good time for pitchers generally (including for Game Scores) back in 1905. The finals scores of the two World Series games Matty didn't pitch were 1-0 and 3-0. C. Bender pitching for the A's also had a 80+ Game Score in the 05 World Series, and this is the only World Series in which four starts had Games Scores over 80 (there were three such starts in each of the 1917, 1967 and 1971 World Series)

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By: Lawrence Azrin http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8708/comment-page-1#comment-60984 Fri, 15 Oct 2010 15:58:00 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=8708#comment-60984 #33/Anthony - "If Game Stat isn't perfect, as many of you have said, then what's the point?"
This is an absurd conclusion - N_O statistic is perfect, or will hold up to the impossibly high standards you have for "Game Score". "GS" is a fun little "quick n'dirty" way to compare individual pitching performances, it shouldn't be considered definitive. As several other posters have pointed out, a no-hitter involves quite a bit of random luck, so I wouldn't automatically consider a no-hitter superior to all other pitching performances. For example, I would consider Pedro Martinez's one hit/17K performance against the Yankees (1999?) superior to many no-hitters, ever though Pedro gave up a (home) run.

Some of the greatest pitchers ever never pitched a no-hitter (Grove, Clemens), while Virgil Trucks pitched TWO no-hitters in one year (out of five wins!). This is indicative - of what? - as I said, the somwhat random nature of no-hitters.

Let's take a commonly used stat such as RBIs - this year ARod drove in 125 runs, just one behind Miguel Cabrera. Does this in any way prove that ARod had as good a year as Cabrera - no, almost no one would claim that, but I doubt anyone is demanding that RBI not be shown on scoreboards anymore... It merely shows that RBI has flaws, and is not a perfect measurement of offensive performance. I would consider "Game Score" a lot more informative than RBI, since RBI are so situation-dependent (on batting-order position and # of runners on-base).

In the same way, "GS" is not a perfect indicate of pitching performance; era/park/opponents/game importance should also be considered. One problem I have with "GS" is that K's are progressively more common, so great performances from 50/75/100+ years ago are somewhat underrated. In perticular, Chisty Mathewson's three great performances in the 1905 World Series (three shutouts/twelves hits TOTAL) are underrated.

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By: birtelcom http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8708/comment-page-1#comment-60975 Fri, 15 Oct 2010 15:24:23 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=8708#comment-60975 Jeff: Sandy over his career struck out 24.6% of batters he faced with runners in scoring postion, but 26.6% of runners he faced with nobody on base. Don't worry about what he said, look at what he did: he was trying to strike out people all the time.

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By: Jeff http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8708/comment-page-1#comment-60968 Fri, 15 Oct 2010 14:43:13 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=8708#comment-60968 "The only time I really try for a strikeout is when I'm in a jam. If the bases are loaded with none out, for example, then I'll go for a strikeout. But most of the time I try to throw to spots. I try to get them to pop up or ground out. On a strikeout I might have to throw five or six pitches, sometimes more if there are foul-offs. That tires me. So I just try to get outs. That's what counts - outs. You win with outs, not strikeouts."

This quote by Sandy Koufax says it all. The perfect game has to be 100.

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