Comments on: Starting More Than One Sudden Death Game http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8706 This and that about baseball stats. Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:01:55 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: Todd http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8706/comment-page-1#comment-61176 Sat, 16 Oct 2010 14:49:11 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=8706#comment-61176 Looking at the play-by-play for Bob Gibson's game deciding games, and color me unimpressed. The 1964 game was won when the offense spotted him a 6-0 lead off of Stottlemyer. Also, if you look at the way the game flowed, there's no way in hell a modern manager lets him pitch the 9th. He was obviously tiring, and the 2 jacks in the 9th prove my point. Also, in 1968, he got touched for 4 runs. Not exactly sterling. Only the 1967 game sticks out for me: 9 complete, 2 runs given up, and he hit a solo shot to help his cause.

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By: DoubleDiamond http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8706/comment-page-1#comment-61085 Sat, 16 Oct 2010 03:16:00 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=8706#comment-61085 @30 I could have sworn that Brooklyn played Cleveland the year of the Bill Wambsganss unassisted triple play, 90 years ago this month, 1920. And I was right. But it turns out that they were called the Brooklyn Robins that year, and the post @30 refers to the only the part of the team's history when they were the Brooklyn Dodgers. I knew that the Brooklyn team had been known as the Robins at some point in their history, but I thought that this was either an unofficial nickname and/or a pre-1900 nickname.

The St. Louis Browns only played the St. Louis Cardinals in the postseason.

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By: RedSeat http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8706/comment-page-1#comment-61042 Fri, 15 Oct 2010 20:49:42 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=8706#comment-61042 @BSK I was wondering the same thing about "win or go home" games, but I don't think there would be an easy way to find that list. It would be interesting to see.

And to expand on my earlier point even though no one asked, here are Pedro's imaginary sudden death numbers.

3G, 3-0 W-L, 20 IP, 22K, 0.9 WHIP.

Of course if Game 5 in the 99 DS is added, then his inexplicable inning in game 7 of the 04 ALCS would have to be added too, but if I'm already twisting the numbers, I'll just go on pretending that inning never happened.

Steve, yes, I'm the same guy.

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By: Larry R. http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8706/comment-page-1#comment-61039 Fri, 15 Oct 2010 20:29:08 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=8706#comment-61039 Where's the love for my man Sandy? 1959 WS, Game 5, a potential clincher...loses 1-0. 1963 WS, Game 1...beats Ford with a CG and 15 Ks. Game 4, a potential clincher...beats Ford again, 2-1, with another CG. 1965 WS, Game 5...CG shutout with 10 Ks. Game 7, on 2 days rest...CG shutout with 10 Ks. Career postseason (all WS games) ERA...0.95 for 57 IP. And doing all this with an arthritic pitching elbow that forced him to retire at age 30. He gets my vote.

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By: Lawrence Azrin http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8706/comment-page-1#comment-61024 Fri, 15 Oct 2010 18:29:19 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=8706#comment-61024 #16/Tom Says: "I was looking at his profile on the site and it says he was 6-1, 170 pounds. 170 pounds!? Just goes to show how much your perception can be off. I always thought of him as a fat guy."

Tom, that's because Lolich only had ONE foot on the scale... Seriously, some of these weights are obviously on the light side, or earlier in the player's career. For instance, I see Mo Vaughn is listed at 225 pounds - following the Red Sox, I doubt that he was under 250 the last few years he was on the RS.

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By: GTB http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8706/comment-page-1#comment-61016 Fri, 15 Oct 2010 17:54:51 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=8706#comment-61016 One additional note for Guidry... he started and did well (6.1 IP, 2 ER) in a winner take all Game 163 in 1978.

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By: BSK http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8706/comment-page-1#comment-60974 Fri, 15 Oct 2010 15:19:43 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=8706#comment-60974 It would be interesting to see the list of guys with multiple "win or go home" games. While those are not sudden death in the traditional sense, they still get at a very similar idea. Obviously, there is not as much "pressure" or "urgency" on the other team, but I'd still be curious to see how guys fared with their team facing elimination. Watching the "Four Days in October" doc made me remember that Schilling through a phenomenol game 6 while Pedro had a forgettable game 5.

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By: Artie Z http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8706/comment-page-1#comment-60901 Fri, 15 Oct 2010 03:45:30 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=8706#comment-60901 Given the small sample size and the circumstances leading up to the games I'm willing to cut Gibson a little bit of slack for his 3.67 ERA. His 3 starts are Game 7's of the World Series. Looking at the circumstances leading up to those starts:

In 1964, he started 8 games from September 2 - October 4 - 2 on 4 days rest and the other 6 on 3 days rest. He threw 5 CG and pitched 8, 8, 8.2 IP in the other three. For good measure, after his last start he came back on the last day of the season and pitched 4 innings in relief because the Cardinals needed that game (they won the pennant by 1 game). Basically, he pitched an entire season's worth for a closer in today's game in one month and in the heat of the pennant race. After those 4 IP on October 4 he came back on the 8th and started Game 2 of the World Series. He came back on the 12th and pitched a 10 inning CG and then on the 15th he threw a 9 IP CG and gave up 5 runs. Reading McCarver's account of that game it's clear Gibson was done but the Cardinals had a 7-3 lead in the 9th before he gave up 2 solo HRs in the 9th and he was the best the Cardinals had so they stayed with him.

In 1967 he came back after Clemente broke his leg in July with a single through the box. He missed 53 days and the Cardinals took it easy with him in September but once the World Series rolled around he started games 1, 4, and 7, pitched 3 CGs and won them all.

In 1968 - well, everyone knows about Gibson's 1968 season. His September workload wasn't that great as the Cardinals won by 9 games, but he still pitched 52 innings in 6 starts. He again started and completed games 1, 4, and 7 of the World Series.

No disrespect to Smoltz or anyone else on the list, but I don't think any of them could have done what Bob Gibson did for his teams leading up to those sudden death games (especially in 1964).

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By: Jimbo http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8706/comment-page-1#comment-60838 Thu, 14 Oct 2010 21:26:03 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=8706#comment-60838 It would be cool if you could put in ERA+ relative to that year's regular season for each of games started. Because Smoltz 0.81 era is even more epic when considering the era he pitched in. Gibson was throwing in a pitcher's era, when a 3.67 era might not even mean he was pitching better than average.

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By: Jimbo http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8706/comment-page-1#comment-60834 Thu, 14 Oct 2010 21:21:18 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=8706#comment-60834 Also, looks like John Smoltz has a good case for being the best big game pitcher of all time.

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