Comments on: John Jaso, Russell Martin, and Catchers Batting Leadoff http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7999 This and that about baseball stats. Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:57:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Johnny Twisto http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7999/comment-page-1#comment-44956 Johnny Twisto Fri, 03 Sep 2010 05:15:00 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7999#comment-44956 You're right Neil, the description does seem incomplete. In the blog post introducing WAR on the site, the stat is described as follows: "Rbsr, Baserunning events like stolen bases, advancing on passed balls, <b>going first to third on a single</b>." I am quite sure that it does account for all baserunning events (at least since 1950), but it would be nice if we had a better description of it somewhere. You're right Neil, the description does seem incomplete. In the blog post introducing WAR on the site, the stat is described as follows: "Rbsr, Baserunning events like stolen bases, advancing on passed balls, going first to third on a single." I am quite sure that it does account for all baserunning events (at least since 1950), but it would be nice if we had a better description of it somewhere.

]]> By: Neil http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7999/comment-page-1#comment-44645 Neil Wed, 01 Sep 2010 23:44:44 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7999#comment-44645 @28 Johnny, it may be my ignorance of the formula for RBaser. When I put my cursor on the column heading for the explanation, it appears to only include SB, CS, PB, WP and defensive indifference. When I go the baseball projection home page and browse around I can't find any links to the formula. What about events like going 1st to 3rd on an outfield single, scoring via sacrifice flies etc? Are these included in Rbaser and if so how? And where does the discussion leave Brady Anderson as a leadoff hitter? @28
Johnny, it may be my ignorance of the formula for RBaser. When I put my cursor on the column heading for the explanation, it appears to only include SB, CS, PB, WP and defensive indifference. When I go the baseball projection home page and browse around I can't find any links to the formula.

What about events like going 1st to 3rd on an outfield single, scoring via sacrifice flies etc? Are these included in Rbaser and if so how?

And where does the discussion leave Brady Anderson as a leadoff hitter?

]]> By: Johnny Twisto http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7999/comment-page-1#comment-44551 Johnny Twisto Wed, 01 Sep 2010 17:17:03 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7999#comment-44551 It depends on the rest of my team. If Henderson and Butler were my two best hitters, I'd have Butler lead off, because Henderson has power to drive him in. If I have a couple good power hitters for the middle of the lineup, I'd bat Henderson leadoff because he's a better hitter than Butler. Why do you say RBaser can't track those baserunning events? I believe that's exactly what it does. It depends on the rest of my team. If Henderson and Butler were my two best hitters, I'd have Butler lead off, because Henderson has power to drive him in. If I have a couple good power hitters for the middle of the lineup, I'd bat Henderson leadoff because he's a better hitter than Butler.

Why do you say RBaser can't track those baserunning events? I believe that's exactly what it does.

]]> By: Neil http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7999/comment-page-1#comment-44231 Neil Tue, 31 Aug 2010 20:24:37 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7999#comment-44231 So, Johnny, based on your ideal leadoff criteria, who fits better, Rickey Henderson or Brett Butler?? Point being, that it's very elusive to define a perfect leadoff hitter. As for the "RBaser" component of WAR, although it is a good start, it can't track the kind of event that both Jeff and I have referred to in our posts, unless I'm out to lunch on my understanding of it. So, Johnny, based on your ideal leadoff criteria, who fits better, Rickey Henderson or Brett Butler?? Point being, that it's very elusive to define a perfect leadoff hitter.

As for the "RBaser" component of WAR, although it is a good start, it can't track the kind of event that both Jeff and I have referred to in our posts, unless I'm out to lunch on my understanding of it.

]]> By: Johnny Twisto http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7999/comment-page-1#comment-43856 Johnny Twisto Tue, 31 Aug 2010 02:31:17 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7999#comment-43856 An ideal leadoff hitter is someone who is one of your best hitters, but has less power than your other best hitters. <i>Is there any way of measuring how well a guy runs the bases besides steals (takes extra bases, scores on sacrifices, breaks up DP's, etc.)?</i> You could check the "RBaser" component of WAR on this site. You could check Baseball Prospectus for their measure of baserunning runs added as well. An ideal leadoff hitter is someone who is one of your best hitters, but has less power than your other best hitters.

Is there any way of measuring how well a guy runs the bases besides steals (takes extra bases, scores on sacrifices, breaks up DP's, etc.)?

You could check the "RBaser" component of WAR on this site. You could check Baseball Prospectus for their measure of baserunning runs added as well.

]]> By: Neil http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7999/comment-page-1#comment-43819 Neil Mon, 30 Aug 2010 22:58:02 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7999#comment-43819 Tuna, you have posted a career stat.... ? With apologies, not a relevant stat to the current discussion about leadoff hitters. Tuna, you have posted a career stat.... ? With apologies, not a relevant stat to the current discussion about leadoff hitters.

]]> By: Kahuna Tuna http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7999/comment-page-1#comment-43813 Kahuna Tuna Mon, 30 Aug 2010 22:08:39 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7999#comment-43813 John Stearns stole 91 bases playing all but a few of his games behind the plate. He never started a game batting leadoff, however. John Stearns stole 91 bases playing all but a few of his games behind the plate. He never started a game batting leadoff, however.

]]> By: Neil http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7999/comment-page-1#comment-43803 Neil Mon, 30 Aug 2010 20:59:18 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7999#comment-43803 I think a stat needed to measure effectiveness of leadoff batters is something like "advanced on outs" as well as OBP. How often does a runner turn a routine fly ball into a sacrifice fly or not become the front end of a double play because he was fast or was running on the pitch? Jeff, I'm not close to the Cubs market so I'm not sure why Dernier sticks in Chicago media memories as an ideal leadoff hitter, but checking his '84 season he had 63 BB and 60 SO. Both Sarge and Sandberg had more runs scored than Dernier. And to top it all off he only had 8 more runs scored than Leon Durham that year! Are we manipulated by the (unsubstantiated) opinions of influential broadcasters and journalists in our markets? I think a stat needed to measure effectiveness of leadoff batters is something like "advanced on outs" as well as OBP. How often does a runner turn a routine fly ball into a sacrifice fly or not become the front end of a double play because he was fast or was running on the pitch?

Jeff, I'm not close to the Cubs market so I'm not sure why Dernier sticks in Chicago media memories as an ideal leadoff hitter, but checking his '84 season he had 63 BB and 60 SO. Both Sarge and Sandberg had more runs scored than Dernier. And to top it all off he only had 8 more runs scored than Leon Durham that year! Are we manipulated by the (unsubstantiated) opinions of influential broadcasters and journalists in our markets?

]]> By: jeff http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7999/comment-page-1#comment-43798 jeff Mon, 30 Aug 2010 20:36:02 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7999#comment-43798 A lot of BB's, and a high OBP would be desirable for leadoff hitter. Are there other indicators? I don't know that a low strike out total coupled with a low BB total would always be good, especially with low power numbers. That indicates the batter doesn't make the pitcher pitch. Is there any way of measuring how well a guy runs the bases besides steals (takes extra bases, scores on sacrifices, breaks up DP's, etc.)? A lot of BB's, and a high OBP would be desirable for leadoff hitter. Are there other indicators? I don't know that a low strike out total coupled with a low BB total would always be good, especially with low power numbers. That indicates the batter doesn't make the pitcher pitch. Is there any way of measuring how well a guy runs the bases besides steals (takes extra bases, scores on sacrifices, breaks up DP's, etc.)?

]]> By: jeff http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7999/comment-page-1#comment-43767 jeff Mon, 30 Aug 2010 19:52:18 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7999#comment-43767 What would the statistical profile of a good leadoff hitter be? I hear a lot about the search for a "protypical leadoff hitter". Who would that be? Sometimes memory doesn't match the facts. It seems like if I guy is fast with no power, some guys think he should bat leadoff even if he can't get on base very often (Juan Pierre, e.g.) Bob Dernier had been mentioned in a lot of Cubs broadcasts (he is the new 1B coach) but 1984 was far and away his best season, and he still had an OPS+ under 100 (97). I used to hate Brett Butler because he was so good. What would the statistical profile of a good leadoff hitter be? I hear a lot about the search for a "protypical leadoff hitter". Who would that be? Sometimes memory doesn't match the facts. It seems like if I guy is fast with no power, some guys think he should bat leadoff even if he can't get on base very often (Juan Pierre, e.g.) Bob Dernier had been mentioned in a lot of Cubs broadcasts (he is the new 1B coach) but 1984 was far and away his best season, and he still had an OPS+ under 100 (97). I used to hate Brett Butler because he was so good.

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