Comments on: Bobby Abreu has never heard of Wins Above Replacement http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7875 This and that about baseball stats. Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:01:55 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: Michael E Sullivan http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7875/comment-page-1#comment-42050 Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:55:54 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7875#comment-42050 Oops. 27, not 29. From his stardom in japan and the level of play in the majors his rookie year, it's clear if he'd grown up in the states he'd have made the majors before 27.

]]>
By: Michael E Sullivan http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7875/comment-page-1#comment-42049 Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:54:00 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7875#comment-42049 Ichiro is a HoFer by my lights because he came into the league at 29. Japan isn' as good as the majors so you can't really count his stats, but like the negro league guys, you know when they come in and play at a high level in their late 20s or 30s, that they would have had a much bigger career if they'd been in the majors from 20-24 like most guys.

Another thing to realize about Ichiro -- he gets a lot of props for his bat because his batting average is so high, but he's really not HoF level in the corner outfield on his bat alone. The reason he's great is that he is very strong on the bases, among the best ever at his position in the field, and possibly the most impressive thing on his resume is that despite hitting pretty much any ball within walking distance of the plate, he manages to be extremely good at not grounding into double plays.

The reason hall of fame voters will vote him in despite largely ignoring the things that *actually* make him a great outfielder, as opposed to merely a bit above average, is that he has a very high batting average.

He's a lot like Abreu in terms of his value coming from a lot of different places, but because he's a slap-junk hitter with a gaudy BA and lots of hits, he's going to coast in even if he retires tomorrow, while Abreu probably doesn't get close unless he adds a few good years.

]]>
By: dominik http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7875/comment-page-1#comment-41681 Tue, 24 Aug 2010 19:40:45 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7875#comment-41681 I'm also quite against Abreu in the Hall, but I have a question:

Is ichiro a HOFer if he is done? everyone sees him a a first ballot guy, but if you compare him to abreu you see that he plays the same pos., has less power and a lower OBP(and OPS) than abreu and is still considered a first ballot guy. yes he has that MVP but the title was basically a joke and the AS appearances are due to his popularity.

So is he a HOFer and why?

]]>
By: Matt Y http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7875/comment-page-1#comment-41015 Mon, 23 Aug 2010 16:06:24 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7875#comment-41015 Moyer's averaged ~2.0 WAR for 24 years. His value is his value, but if anything Moyer's ONLY in the conversation because he's pitched that long, and at his current pace, he'd have to pitch at least 3 more years and get his WAR into the 55 range and get to 300 wins to even get a sniff of the Hall. 300 Wins with a WAR under 55 should not get it done.

]]>
By: Michael E Sullivan http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7875/comment-page-1#comment-40951 Mon, 23 Aug 2010 14:08:18 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7875#comment-40951 Basmati, it doesn't seem to me that Jamie Moyer is marked down for having a long career.

If anything, the only reason his name and "hall of fame" ever appear in close proximity is *because* of his incredibly long career, and the only way he'll get in is if his career is even longer.

Jamie Moyer is marked down because in spite of his very long career, he has had only a few years when he rose above the pack, and none of them spectacular. His highest WAR season was a 5.9, and his fourth highest was 3.9. He's had only 8 seasons with 3+ WAR. 12 of his 24 seasons have been below 1 WAR, so for half of his career he's been somewhere between replacement and below average.

]]>
By: Michael E Sullivan http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7875/comment-page-1#comment-40912 Mon, 23 Aug 2010 12:52:50 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7875#comment-40912 Basmati,

it matters because below average pitchers still get wins.

If someone played on nothing but great teams and had a pitching W-L record that was below his team's average record, but lasted long enough and got enough starts to win 300, would you really think that guy was a hall of famer? We get confused about counting numbers like 3000 hits or 300 wins because it is so unusual for a merely good player to last long enough to get to those numbers. If you look at the list of guys who've hit those numbers, it is full of slam dunk HoFers, but it also contains a few suspect guys.

]]>
By: tim http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7875/comment-page-1#comment-40734 Mon, 23 Aug 2010 04:00:04 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7875#comment-40734 ASG, would you tell us who those pitchers are?

]]>
By: Mickey Morandini http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7875/comment-page-1#comment-40717 Mon, 23 Aug 2010 02:56:49 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7875#comment-40717 Abreu a Hof'r?...ehhhh no. He's had a very good career, if he were to be inducted into the hall of fame, then Carlos Beltran should be inducted as well. (As the two have virtually identical stats) While Abreu is more consistent with the stats and injury-free, Beltran has multiple gold gloves, all-star appearances, and high finishes in mvp votings. Of course neither of them are HOF players, just very good players. Sure Abreu will get his share of votes when the time comes but he probably won't crack 30% a solid and forgettable player.

]]>
By: Gary Ashman http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7875/comment-page-1#comment-40637 Sun, 22 Aug 2010 17:06:26 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7875#comment-40637 basmati, it matters a lot whether a pitcher has helped his team win 300 in 10 years or 25. If he does it in ten years another replacement players has the opportunity to help his team win X number of games over the ensuing 15 years. The Nationals win 600 games in 10 years, the Yankees do it in 6. That matters a lot

]]>
By: Gary Ashman http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7875/comment-page-1#comment-40636 Sun, 22 Aug 2010 17:03:15 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7875#comment-40636 There's absolutely no reason Abreu should know about WAR.... the sabrmetric stats are for analysts, not players. His job is to hit the ball, catch the ball, not whip out a calculator and figure out his VORP

]]>