Comments on: Changes to Maris and Mantle’s Batting Totals http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7582 This and that about baseball stats. Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:01:55 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: For Jim Gentile, a Long-Awaited Bonus - Bats Blog - NYTimes.com http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7582/comment-page-1#comment-36816 Sat, 07 Aug 2010 03:47:08 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7582#comment-36816 [...] Analysis by the Society for American Baseball Research found that Maris had erroneously been credited with a run batted in during a game on July 5, 1961; the run, in fact, had scored on an error, as was reported in five published accounts of the game and in the Yankees’ play-by-play sheets. By officially changing the scoring, Maris was deducted a run batted in — giving him only 141, the same as Gentile. [...]

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By: Friday Links (30 Jul 10) – Ducksnorts http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7582/comment-page-1#comment-34783 Fri, 30 Jul 2010 12:47:02 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7582#comment-34783 [...] Changes to Maris and Mantle’s Batting Totals (Baseball-Reference). Count me in the “Get it right, even it means upsetting a few people” camp of recording history. Good on ya, Sean. [...]

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By: Brendan Burke http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7582/comment-page-1#comment-34695 Thu, 29 Jul 2010 21:33:20 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7582#comment-34695 About Cobb's hit total...

Having 4191 hits instead of 4189 was the result of double-counting a 2-for-4 game in 1910. That same game provided the difference for giving Cobb the batting title. By the way, the first Macmillan Encyclopedia gave Cobb 4192 hits.

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By: Professor Longnose http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7582/comment-page-1#comment-34252 Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:24:22 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7582#comment-34252 I have a suggestion. How about when you look at these numbers on baseball-reference.com (and elsewhere), you get some sort of an automatic notation that the numbers have been revised after the initial tabulation, much as you get an automatic notation that some number led a league or set a record.

That will do two things. It will record the original value, which has some historical interest (and in some cases even psychological insight into motivations at the time), and it will also get people used to the idea that numbers get revised based on new information, educating them along the way about how and why.

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By: BaseballRun - Corrections affect Maris, Mantle stat titles from ’61 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7582/comment-page-1#comment-34206 Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:28:07 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7582#comment-34206 [...] more on how the changes were discovered, check out Sean Forman’s blog post at baseball-reference.com. (H/T: AOL [...]

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By: Corrections affect Maris, Mantle stat titles from ’61 | GameDay Weekly http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7582/comment-page-1#comment-34204 Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:01:51 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7582#comment-34204 [...] more on how the changes were discovered, check out Sean Forman’s blog post at baseball-reference.com. (H/T: AOL [...]

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By: Mike Felber http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7582/comment-page-1#comment-34193 Wed, 28 Jul 2010 06:16:01 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7582#comment-34193 I do not think that anyone should be told to take the debate to another thread, when the overarching theme is of how records are kept. Certainly not from someone who did not author the thread.

However, I agree overwhelmingly with Mr. Azrin. With the small caveats that we have some good idea what PEDs do, though can never say how much exactly they may have added. And an asterisk can be added absent changing any official numbers. Nevertheless, who used what for how long will be a shifting & never complete record. So the asterisk should be just mental, & flexible based upon new evidence.

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By: Maris Loses One Record, Gains Another « El Maquino http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7582/comment-page-1#comment-34142 Tue, 27 Jul 2010 23:25:32 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7582#comment-34142 [...] story here, courtesy of [...]

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By: One | A DC Based Company - Roger Maris, Mickey Mantle Lose 1961 RBI, Runs Scored Titles http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7582/comment-page-1#comment-34141 Tue, 27 Jul 2010 23:25:06 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7582#comment-34141 [...] Sean Forman of baseball-reference.com reprinted a note on his website written by Lyle Spatz, chair of the Society For American Baseball Research records committee. In the note, Spatz details that Roger Maris was mistakenly given an extra RBI in a 1961 game. It also details that Mantle was given an extra run scored in the same year. [...]

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By: Lawrence Azrin http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7582/comment-page-1#comment-34103 Tue, 27 Jul 2010 20:47:52 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7582#comment-34103 #1 "Scott Says:
I agree that this change needed to occur. I also think that something needs to be done about all the records tainted with steroid abuse...at least an asterisk!"

Something needs to be done, on the basis of WHAT??
- beyond positive tests, you do not know who actually used steriods
- even with positive tests, you do not know how long they used
- you have no idea what the affects of steriods on performance are
- if you subtract from the totals of batters, you have to subtract from the totals of opposing pitchers, not to mention from the the team totals of both teams involved (hitters/pitchers). League and team leaders would be altered arbitrarily.

THAT is why you cannot change the record books because of steriod use. As #6 said, a reference source should always reflect what actually happened on the field. If Ty Cobb really had 4189 hits, and not 4191,the record books should reflect that.

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