Comments on: Baseball-Reference FAQ: Pre-1975 Save Statistics http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7371 This and that about baseball stats. Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:01:55 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: Chipmaker http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7371/comment-page-1#comment-31002 Fri, 16 Jul 2010 20:37:53 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7371#comment-31002 Fair enough. I hadn't considered the "change pitchers during final PA" scenario. Wonder if that's ever come to pass?

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By: Sparky Lyle, Lost Saves, Awards Voting and Semantics » Baseball-Reference Blog » Blog Archive http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7371/comment-page-1#comment-30951 Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:02:08 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7371#comment-30951 [...] Yesterday, Neil discussed the strange definition of the save rule in 1974.   One of the major differences between saves in that season and others is that: "The relief pitcher must face the potential tying or winning run at the plate or on base, or pitch effectively for at least three innings, and in either case preserve the lead." [...]

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By: Raphy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7371/comment-page-1#comment-30928 Fri, 16 Jul 2010 10:19:25 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7371#comment-30928 Not as many as you think. In addition to pitching in may losses, Marshall also earned 15 wins that season.
I believe we can find the would be saves by searching for games in which Marshall earned a hold while finishing the game. The are 8 such games in 1974. http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/ggM7K

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By: dodgerdave http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7371/comment-page-1#comment-30913 Fri, 16 Jul 2010 04:53:47 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7371#comment-30913 How many saves would Mike Marshall have had in 1974 under the current rules? His performance that year was subhuman. 106 games, finished 83 of them, and threw 208.1 IP, all in relief. He finished 83 games and only had 21 saves. That was a ridiculous save rule that they had at that time.

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By: Richard http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7371/comment-page-1#comment-30881 Fri, 16 Jul 2010 00:50:16 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7371#comment-30881 I thought if you finish a strikeout, then you get credit for it. I thought it was a walk that goes to the original pitcher.

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By: Spartan Bill http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7371/comment-page-1#comment-30871 Thu, 15 Jul 2010 23:15:00 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7371#comment-30871 Chipmaker

I doubt if it has ever come up like this, but here may be one instance why the distinction is necessary. Let's say Mariano Rivera is working on a save and with 2 outs and the count 1-2, he pulls a muscle and has to leave the game. Joba Chamberlain comes in, throws one pitch and finishes the strikeout. In that scenario, Joba finished the game, but does not get credit for a save or even a 0.1 IP. Therefore since he was the last pitcher, no save would be awarded.

Compare that to the same scenario, but the batter grounded out on Joba's one pitch. He gets 0.1 IP and the save. That's one reason the rule might be there.

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By: Johnny Twisto http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7371/comment-page-1#comment-30849 Thu, 15 Jul 2010 21:07:59 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7371#comment-30849 Another problem with some of the old games (which Neil didn't mention above, but is aware of) is that there are some pitchers who finished games and get credited with Holds when they should be getting Saves. For instance, there is a huge discrepancy on Allie Reynolds in 1953. The seasonal record shows him with 13 saves, but his game log gives him only like 5 saves, and turns the others into holds. One of the problems of automation, I suppose.

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By: DavidRF http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7371/comment-page-1#comment-30844 Thu, 15 Jul 2010 20:35:30 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7371#comment-30844 @2
I think the "must be credited with at least 1/3 of an inning" comes into play when the "hold" statistic is determined. Holds and Saves are closely related. Before that clause was added, you could be credited with a Hold without recording any outs as long as you didn't blow the save situation.

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By: tmckelv http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7371/comment-page-1#comment-30843 Thu, 15 Jul 2010 20:30:26 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7371#comment-30843 For 1950-1968 seasons, since the 1969 rules are in effect, who is the "scorer" that determines the most effective pitcher that is awarded the save?

I would think that the current rules would be used, because with complete game data, there is no judgement required.

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By: Chipmaker http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7371/comment-page-1#comment-30838 Thu, 15 Jul 2010 20:16:19 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7371#comment-30838 The rules available on MLB.com include a fourth condition -- the pitcher must be credited with at least 1/3 of an inning to qualify for a save.

It seems to be a recent addition, and I'm not even sure why such a distinction is necessary, given the "must be the last pitcher" condition doesn't give a way around being credited at least 0.1 IP that I can see.

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