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Mariano Rivera

Posted by Andy on July 26, 2008

Lowest WHIP, minimum 38 years old, minimum 40 IP

  Cnt Player             **WHIP**   IP  Year Age Tm  Lg  G  GS CG SHO GF  W  L  W-L% SV  H   R   ER  BB  SO   ERA  ERA  HR  BF   AB  2B 3B IBB HBP  SH  SF GDP  SB CS Pk BK WP   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS  OPS   Pit  Str
 ----+-----------------+---------+-----+----+---+---+--+---+--+--+---+--+--+--+-----+--+---+---+---+---+---+------+----+--+----+----+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---- 
    1 Mariano Rivera      0.669    46.1 2008  38 NYY AL  42  0  0   0 40  4  3  .571 26  27   6   6   4  57   1.17  353  2  169  161  4  0   0   2   1   1   1   5  1  0  0  0  .168  .196  .230  .426   14  653  453 
    2 Hoyt Wilhelm        0.824    81.1 1966  43 CHW AL  46  0  0   0 30  5  2  .714  6  50  21  15  17  61   1.66  190  6  308  281  6  0   2   1   7   2   4   9  1  0  0  3  .178  .226  .263  .489   48           
    3 Hoyt Wilhelm        0.833   144   1965  42 CHW AL  66  0  0   0 45  7  7  .500 20  88  34  29  32 106   1.81  176 11  545  502 12  3   7   2   8   5  10   9  1  1  0 10  .175  .226  .277  .503   51           
    4 Cy Young            0.867   320.2 1905  38 BOS AL  38 33 31   4  5 18 19  .486  0 248  99  65  30 210   1.82  148  3 1238                 10                        0  6                            0           
    5 Dick Hall           0.883    65.2 1969  38 BAL AL  39  0  0   0 17  5  2  .714  6  49  14  14   9  31   1.92  187  3  246  230  9  0   6   1   4   2   3   3  0  0  0  0  .213  .244  .291  .535   53           
    6 Doug Jones          0.884    80.1 1997  40 MIL AL  75  0  0   0 73  6  6  .500 36  62  20  18   9  82   2.02  231  4  307  289 11  1   1   3   1   5   5   2  3  0  0  2  .215  .242  .301  .543   41           
    7 Cy Young            0.893   299   1908  41 BOS AL  36 33 30   3  3 21 11  .656  2 230  68  42  37 150   1.26  194  1 1143                  2                        0  4                            0           
    8 Randy Johnson       0.900   245.2 2004  40 ARI NL  35 35  4   2  0 16 14  .533  0 177  88  71  44 290   2.60  177 18  964  898 34  9   1  10   7   5   4  17 10  1  1  3  .197  .241  .315  .556   44 3629 2505 
    9 Joe Berry           0.907   111.1 1944  39 PHA AL  53  0  0   0 47 10  8  .556 12  78  32  24  23  44   1.94  179  4  445                  2                        0  1                            0           
   10 Russ Springer       0.909    66   2007  38 STL NL  76  0  0   0 18  8  1  .889  0  41  18  16  19  66   2.18  201  3  257  226  6  2   1   3   3   6   4   3  3  0  0  1  .181  .248  .265  .513   37 1068  682 

Best ERA+, minimum 38 years old, minimum 40 IP

  Cnt Player            **ERA **   IP  Year Age Tm  Lg  G  GS CG SHO GF  W  L  W-L% SV  H   R   ER  BB  SO   ERA  HR  BF   AB  2B 3B IBB HBP  SH  SF GDP  SB CS Pk BK WP   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS  OPS   Pit  Str
 ----+-----------------+--------+-----+----+---+---+--+---+--+--+---+--+--+--+-----+--+---+---+---+---+---+------+--+----+----+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---- 
    1 Mariano Rivera       353    46.1 2008  38 NYY AL  42  0  0   0 40  4  3  .571 26  27   6   6   4  57   1.17  2  169  161  4  0   0   2   1   1   1   5  1  0  0  0  .168  .196  .230  .426   14  653  453 
    2 Marv Grissom         241    80.2 1956  38 NYG NL  43  2  0   0 20  1  1  .500  7  71  15  14  16  49   1.56  3  323  295  9  3   3   1   8   3   2   0  3  1  0  2  .241  .279  .322  .601   56           
    3 Doug Jones           231    80.1 1997  40 MIL AL  75  0  0   0 73  6  6  .500 36  62  20  18   9  82   2.02  4  307  289 11  1   1   3   1   5   5   2  3  0  0  2  .215  .242  .301  .543   41           
    4 Hoyt Wilhelm         229    89   1967  44 CHW AL  49  0  0   0 30  8  3  .727 12  58  21  13  34  76   1.31  2  360  317  8  0   4   4   4   1   3   8  6  0  0  2  .183  .270  .227  .497   57           
    5 Ellis Kinder         227   107   1953  38 BOS AL  69  0  0   0 51 10  6  .625 27  84  30  22  38  39   1.85  8  441                  2                        1  1                            0           
    6 Roger Clemens        226   211.1 2005  42 HOU NL  32 32  1   0  0 13  8  .619  0 151  51  44  62 185   1.87 11  838  761 26  3   5   3   9   3  16   8  4  2  1  3  .198  .261  .284  .545   46 3200 2036 
    7 Takashi Saito        203    41.1 2008  38 LAD NL  39  0  0   0 34  3  3  .500 17  34  11  10  12  53   2.18  1  170  154  9  0   2   2   0   2   2   0  0  0  0  1  .221  .282  .299  .581   56  728  469 
    8 Mike Timlin          202    80.1 2005  39 BOS AL  81  0  0   0 27  7  3  .700 13  86  23  20  20  59   2.24  2  342  311 24  2   5   2   3   6   6   6  1  1  0  3  .277  .319  .386  .705   84 1169  778 
    9 Russ Springer        201    66   2007  38 STL NL  76  0  0   0 18  8  1  .889  0  41  18  16  19  66   2.18  3  257  226  6  2   1   3   3   6   4   3  3  0  0  1  .181  .248  .265  .513   37 1068  682 
   10 Terry Leach          200    73.2 1992  38 CHW AL  51  0  0   0 21  6  5  .545  0  57  17  16  20  22   1.95  2  292  265  9  3   5   4   2   1   4   7  3  1  0  0  .215  .279  .294  .573   62              

Thanks, David in Toledo.

This entry was posted on Saturday, July 26th, 2008 at 12:29 pm and is filed under Season Finders. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

15 Responses to “Mariano Rivera”

  1. David in Toledo Says:

    If I understand the criterion correctly, Mariano will show up very prominently among the CAREER leaders for these categories, when he has pitched one more inning.

    I think the cutoff for consideration as a career pitching leader on this wonderful web site is 1000 innings, and Mariano has now thrown 999.3. Check it out (in the "Leaders" category of baseball-reference.com) after his next appearance!

  2. Oh, good point David.

    This is what frustrated me about Papelbon's comments about Rivera around the all-star game. Yes, Papelbon has been phenomenal closer, but he has a long way to go yet to prove what Rivera's proven over a much, much longer career.

  3. What if he only pitches 1/3 of an inning in his next appearence? Or what if he pitches 0 innings? Huh? Huh!?

  4. I go to college in the Boston area and after Papelbon's first season closing, many Red Sox fans at my school thought he was already the greatest closer ever. So Papelbon's not the only guy who thinks he's really great: all his fans do too.

  5. David in Toledo Says:

    Everybody's great. I learned that in kindergarten. Although Eck and Todd Jones stopped being really great at age 37. Well, Todd Jones is still a great writer.

    Mariano has been great longer, that's all. And if he pitches 0 innings next time out, we'll just have to wait a little longer for the odometer to roll over.

  6. David in Toledo Says:

    For what Jonathan Papelbon has accomplished after 200 career innings, see the following PI list. The name "Dick Hughes" surprised me.

    http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/rjxj

  7. I'm wondering how relevant the ERA is in the modern game. It's a stat born in a time before pitch counts and specialization, when pitchers threw 9 innings. The WHIP is a bit more revealing, since it measures innings on their own merit. Even though the ERA is applied equally for everyone, I wonder what it really means when one considers relief pitchers and starters, for that matter.

    The "quality start" will sometimes contradict an ERA. Perhaps it's time to come up with a relevant statistic to measure each outing. It may take 3 outings for a pitcher to amass 9 innings, which is why I don't feel it's always relevant.

  8. vincent75 Says:

    what they really need for relievers is stat to measure the number of inherited runners allowed to score; i know they do track this but it needs an ERA equivalent.

  9. I think where it gets out of whack is when a reliever comes in for one inning, gives up a run and his ERA is 9. A starter might give up a run in the first then settle down and pitch 5 scoreless innings. They aren't comparable measures.

  10. I don't really agree with this last comment. A run is a run, and whether allowed over a long appearance or a short appearance, it counts the same in the final score. Perhaps what's bothering you is that relievers' appearances, at least in terms on earned runs allowed, tend to be a lot more binary than starters' appearances. In other words, most relievers, especially closers, can have their appearances broken down into two categories: ones where they allow runs, and ones where they don't. These days, though, starters almost always allow at least 1 run. In this sense, the average number of runs allowed feels like a more statistic. Maybe your average #3 starter goes out there and allows 1 run 10% of the time, 2 runs 20% of the time, 3 runs 30% of the time, etc etc. Then knowing that he allows on average, say, 3.2 earned runs per game, and does that over an average of, say, 6.1 innings, means that he has an ERA of 4.72. Knowing what fraction of his starts he allowed 0 runs seems fairly meaningless, since for most pitchers it's a very small fraction. But for relievers, maybe it would be nice to know what fraction of his appearances were scoreless. But then, as pointed out above, we'd need also to know something about the fraction of inherited runners he allowed to score.

  11. Johnny Twisto Says:

    I believe Baseball Prospectus has stats which try to address these issues. For starters, I believe that support-neutral W-L record assesses the likelihood of a win based on the pitcher's performance on a start-by-start basis. For relievers, I think they have numbers assessing performance based on the situations relievers face when entering the game, and runners they may leave on base for the next guy.

    I do agree that ERA isn't always a perfect measure, for any pitcher, especially relievers. If you can't access Baseball Prospectus (or don't trust them) you can also look at unearned runs allowed, component stats (H, HR, BB, K), % of scoreless appearances, etc. However, with someone like Rivera who consistently puts up miniscule ERAs year after year, it's a pretty good bet that ERA is accurately representing his performance.

  12. David in Toledo Says:

    Play Index allows us to compare Jonathan Papelbon's first four years with (only) the first four years of other pitchers. This allows us to look at only how pitchers began (filtering out their later careers, both what is often their improved maturity and their decline phase).

    http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/WtTq

  13. vincent75 Says:

    since this seems to have turned into a comparison between papelbon and rivera, it should be noted how many times rivera has averaged more than an inning per appearance in his career as opposed to papelbon.

  14. True, vincent, although of course it's very much up for debate whether such use was the optimal pattern. It's true that Rivera has had more "tough" save situations than Papelbon yet has saves in his whole career, but I'm not sure how to use that as a point of comparison between them.

    One thing's for sure--I certainly subscribe to the idea of using your closer when the game is on the line. Case in point is how Rivera has often been used against the Red Sox. When the Yankees have had a small lead in the 8th with Ortiz & Ramirez up and runners on base, Torre never hesitated to use Mariano, as he should have, since that was definitely the key point of the game. 9th inning with later hitters up and bases empty is not worth saving your closer for unless you can hold the lead in the 8th.

  15. David in Toledo Says:

    This discussion shouldn't be primarily a comparison between Rivera and Papelbon. Yes, they're both contemporary closers, but one took that role at age 27 and has 14 ML seasons. The other took the role four years ago at age 24. The differences are as important as the similarity.