Comments on: Corey Hart’s having his best season – or is he? http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7256 This and that about baseball stats. Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:01:55 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: Josh http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7256/comment-page-1#comment-31014 Fri, 16 Jul 2010 22:32:59 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7256#comment-31014 "I think it'd be better if we broke them out, looking separately at range, arm, what a player does with the ball "

Baseballprojection.com provides the fielding numbers b-ref uses but breaks them down into components: TZ (range), DP ability for infielders, and arm.

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By: Malcolm http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7256/comment-page-1#comment-30114 Mon, 12 Jul 2010 23:15:07 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7256#comment-30114 If you really want to be 100% precise in your evaluation of a player, you'd better just watch every game he plays. No statistic is going to give a perfect reflection of a player's "value". Stats are meant to give you an idea of what kind of a player the guy is, but if you want an exact evaluation of Corey Hart you'd better buy season tickets to Miller Park (and be prepared to spend a lot of money on airfare).

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By: BSK http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7256/comment-page-1#comment-30095 Mon, 12 Jul 2010 21:17:58 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7256#comment-30095 Considering that defensive stats are still fairly new and untested, at least relative to pitching and batting stats, I think it's best we not seek ways to consolidate them to one number. I realize that for comparison's sake, having a single number like WAR or WPA is helpful.

But when looking at defensive stats, I think it'd be better if we broke them out, looking separately at range, arm, what a player does with the ball (fielding it cleanly vs bobbling it vs booting it), and whatever else goes into it. All of that already goes into the super advanced defensive metrics, but I think looking at them individually might better serve us until there is more trust in them.

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By: John Q http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7256/comment-page-1#comment-30086 Mon, 12 Jul 2010 20:22:13 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7256#comment-30086 The .261/.337/.592 was his line on June 10, 2010.

The .288/.349/.569 are his current numbers as of July 11, 2010.

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By: Rick Bagnall http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7256/comment-page-1#comment-30085 Mon, 12 Jul 2010 20:01:30 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7256#comment-30085 I'm not sure how much credence to lend Zone Rating. It's got Jason Bay as average to above-average, despite his decidedly pedestrian range (last I checked, the predominant Mariners platoon of Bradley/Saunders had 33% more total chances in about 83% of the total innings, and they're not even the best in the majors). But it lists Ichiro Suzuki as just barely above average, despite his phenomenal range (at one point, he had more total chances than Vernon Wells, who was playing center for the Jays). Sure, Bay plays the balls that he gets to almost flawlessly, but he doesn't get to all that many!

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By: Johnny Twisto http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7256/comment-page-1#comment-30078 Mon, 12 Jul 2010 19:00:49 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7256#comment-30078 Fair point, I was just thinking of more current stats. I think your caution is well-warranted. I don't like it when people dismiss all new fielding metrics because they don't think defense can be measured. Of course it can be measured. But it's not as easy to measure as batting, and it's going to be very difficult to ever measure perfectly (whatever that means). It's important to be aware of what is being measured, and what the limitations of the various stats are.

An advantage the new numbers have is the increased data and the increased peer-review. When Pete Palmer developed his numbers, he didn't have any actual information about where balls had been hit. And when he published, it was for a smaller audience that had no easy way of giving feedback. Now every ball is tracked, and the Internet is full of saber-savvy fans who can help point out flaws or suggest improvements in a defensive system. We're not there yet, but I think we're closer.

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By: Alan http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7256/comment-page-1#comment-30076 Mon, 12 Jul 2010 18:42:49 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7256#comment-30076 Johnny Twisto, I'm talking about stats that try to round everything into single numbers. I grew up with Pete Palmer's Fielding Runs. A lot of people put faith in those numbers and they are entirely unused now it seems. I'm cautious about falling into the same trap.

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By: Andy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7256/comment-page-1#comment-30067 Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:24:26 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7256#comment-30067 And did you mean what Hart did ON June 11 or AFTER June 11?

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By: John Q http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7256/comment-page-1#comment-30066 Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:17:53 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7256#comment-30066 My fourth paragraph @4 should say Hart not Braun.

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By: Brewer 44 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7256/comment-page-1#comment-30064 Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:11:14 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=7256#comment-30064 Being a Huge Hart fan, I am loving this season. And just wanted to add a little bit of info from someone who follows the Brewers.

Hart's surge starts on May 15. Where he hit 4 HR in 12 ABs. From May 15 to June 1 he hit 11 HR. This was all while batting in the 6th spot.

He moved to the 2nd spot and then went on the 5th longest hitting streak in franchise history 20 games, he also had a 22 game hitting streak in 2007.

This all from a player who won an arbitration case, fell apart in spring training, was benched for Jim Edmonds, almost run out of town, then forced to play because of injures on the Brewers.

I personally believe that Hart's surge is directly responsible to his ability to not swing at the low outside pitch, which he can't hit (especially a slider). Since his all-star selection in 2008 he fell into a pattern of swinging at that pitch....alot and never even coming close to hitting it.

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