Comments on: Making a Habit of Losing http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/649 This and that about baseball stats. Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:57:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Raphy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/649/comment-page-1#comment-4549 Raphy Thu, 01 May 2008 10:04:14 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/649#comment-4549 To add to gerry's point. There were 16 pitchers who qualified for the ERA title in 1968 and 1969 and had a lower ERA in the second year. Two pitchers stayed the same. Here is the list. 1968 1969 Change Larry Dierker 3.31 2.33 -0.98 Jim Maloney 3.61 2.77 -0.84 Steve Carlton 2.99 2.17 -0.82 Joe Niekro 4.32 3.7 -0.62 Bill Singer 2.88 2.34 -0.54 Claude Osteen 3.09 2.66 -0.43 Bill Hands 2.89 2.49 -0.4 Mike Cuellar 2.74 2.38 -0.36 Jim McGlothlin 3.54 3.18 -0.36 Juan Marichal 2.43 2.1 -0.33 Mike McCormick 3.58 3.34 -0.24 Dave Boswell 3.32 3.23 -0.09 Fritz Peterson 2.63 2.55 -0.08 Mickey Lolich 3.19 3.14 -0.05 Phil Niekro 2.59 2.56 -0.03 Catfish Hunter 3.35 3.35 0 Joe Coleman 3.27 3.27 0 To add to gerry's point. There were 16 pitchers who qualified for the ERA title in 1968 and 1969 and had a lower ERA in the second year. Two pitchers stayed the same. Here is the list.

1968 1969 Change
Larry Dierker 3.31 2.33 -0.98
Jim Maloney 3.61 2.77 -0.84
Steve Carlton 2.99 2.17 -0.82
Joe Niekro 4.32 3.7 -0.62
Bill Singer 2.88 2.34 -0.54
Claude Osteen 3.09 2.66 -0.43
Bill Hands 2.89 2.49 -0.4
Mike Cuellar 2.74 2.38 -0.36
Jim McGlothlin 3.54 3.18 -0.36
Juan Marichal 2.43 2.1 -0.33
Mike McCormick 3.58 3.34 -0.24
Dave Boswell 3.32 3.23 -0.09
Fritz Peterson 2.63 2.55 -0.08
Mickey Lolich 3.19 3.14 -0.05
Phil Niekro 2.59 2.56 -0.03
Catfish Hunter 3.35 3.35 0
Joe Coleman 3.27 3.27 0

]]> By: gerry http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/649/comment-page-1#comment-4548 gerry Thu, 01 May 2008 03:31:52 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/649#comment-4548 DmbCubFan wanted pitchers whose stats didn't severely drop from 1968 to 1969. Juan Marichal's ERA went from 2.43 to 2.10. Steve Carlton's went from 2.99 to 2.17. Tom Seaver saw essentially no change, 2.20 to 2.21. Larry Dierker, huge improvement, 3.31 to 2.33. Gaylord Perry didn't change much, 2.44 to 2.49. Phil Niekro improved a hair, 2.59 to 2.56. And that's just the NL. Of course, ERA overall went up from 1968 to 1969, but not a few pitchers managed to swim against the tide. DmbCubFan wanted pitchers whose stats didn't severely drop from 1968 to 1969.
Juan Marichal's ERA went from 2.43 to 2.10. Steve Carlton's went from 2.99 to 2.17.
Tom Seaver saw essentially no change, 2.20 to 2.21. Larry Dierker, huge improvement, 3.31 to 2.33.
Gaylord Perry didn't change much, 2.44 to 2.49. Phil Niekro improved a hair, 2.59 to 2.56.
And that's just the NL.

Of course, ERA overall went up from 1968 to 1969, but not a few pitchers managed to swim against the tide.

]]> By: Johnny Twisto http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/649/comment-page-1#comment-4538 Johnny Twisto Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:41:17 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/649#comment-4538 Everyone always ignores the 19th Century. Amos Rusie had a 189 in 1894, and Clark Griffith 190 in 1898. It was also done a few times in the 1880s, but I do like to draw a line in 1893 when the mound was moved back. Everyone always ignores the 19th Century. Amos Rusie had a 189 in 1894, and Clark Griffith 190 in 1898.

It was also done a few times in the 1880s, but I do like to draw a line in 1893 when the mound was moved back.

]]> By: David in Toledo http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/649/comment-page-1#comment-4535 David in Toledo Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:09:26 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/649#comment-4535 Because of Tiant's 186 ERA+ in 1968, I ran a search to see how often a pitcher is that superior to the rest of the hurlers in a particular year. The answer is 66 times, ERA+ 185 or higher, 162 minimum innings. The first time was Cy Young in 1901. In 1968 Luis Tiant was joined at that level by Bob Gibson (ERA+ 258, Stat O' the Day April 20, 2008). Highest ERA+ (easily available on the Leader boards) is Pedro Martinez, ERA+ 291 in 2000. 1997 is the only year in which four pitchers so distinguished themselves: Clemens, Martinez, Maddux, R. Johnson. Three pitchers finished at the ERA+ 185 level in five seasons: Martinez, R. Johnson, and W. Johnson. Two finished there or above in four seasons: Maddux and Lefty Grove. Clemens is alone in recording a 185+ ERA in three seasons. Because of Tiant's 186 ERA+ in 1968, I ran a search to see how often a pitcher is that superior to the rest of the hurlers in a particular year. The answer is 66 times, ERA+ 185 or higher, 162 minimum innings. The first time was Cy Young in 1901. In 1968 Luis Tiant was joined at that level by Bob Gibson (ERA+ 258, Stat O' the Day April 20, 2008).

Highest ERA+ (easily available on the Leader boards) is Pedro Martinez, ERA+ 291 in 2000. 1997 is the only year in which four pitchers so distinguished themselves: Clemens, Martinez, Maddux, R. Johnson.

Three pitchers finished at the ERA+ 185 level in five seasons: Martinez, R. Johnson, and W. Johnson. Two finished there or above in four seasons: Maddux and Lefty Grove. Clemens is alone in recording a 185+ ERA in three seasons.

]]> By: Johnny Twisto http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/649/comment-page-1#comment-4534 Johnny Twisto Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:28:19 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/649#comment-4534 Tiant missed a lot of '70 and '71 with arm injuries, and I wonder if he was already bothered in '69. He then returned in '72 as a junkballer and had a great second act to his career. Tiant missed a lot of '70 and '71 with arm injuries, and I wonder if he was already bothered in '69. He then returned in '72 as a junkballer and had a great second act to his career.

]]> By: damthesehigheels http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/649/comment-page-1#comment-4533 damthesehigheels Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:23:23 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/649#comment-4533 on note number 4 you'll see everyone above (below?) edgar gonzalez on that list made relief appearances too... on note number 4 you'll see everyone above (below?) edgar gonzalez on that list made relief appearances too...

]]> By: David in Toledo http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/649/comment-page-1#comment-4532 David in Toledo Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:46:18 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/649#comment-4532 SmrtCubFan's reminder about the mound lowering means that Tiant in the spring of 1969 had a "drop off" in two respects. But, as noted in post #1, by June he did adjust, or get over his arm trouble, or compensate somehow for whatever factors accounted for his terrible 1969 beginning. I was also intrigued by Mike Maroth, who, after all, allowed only 49 base runners in 41 innings while losing seven straight. He was pitching for a pretty bad team that year. And this kind of thing happened. On May 1, he had a no-hitter for 7 innings. Then he got to 2 out and 2 on in the 8th. Wild pitch, single, and he's out of the game, and his relief gives up 4 straight base runners on the way to a Maroth no-decision. . . . Four of Maroth's first 7 losses came in games when HIS game score was 60 or higher (and in the other three, he stank). SmrtCubFan's reminder about the mound lowering means that Tiant in the spring of 1969 had a "drop off" in two respects. But, as noted in post #1, by June he did adjust, or get over his arm trouble, or compensate somehow for whatever factors accounted for his terrible 1969 beginning.

I was also intrigued by Mike Maroth, who, after all, allowed only 49 base runners in 41 innings while losing seven straight. He was pitching for a pretty bad team that year. And this kind of thing happened. On May 1, he had a no-hitter for 7 innings. Then he got to 2 out and 2 on in the 8th. Wild pitch, single, and he's out of the game, and his relief gives up 4 straight base runners on the way to a Maroth no-decision. . . . Four of Maroth's first 7 losses came in games when HIS game score was 60 or higher (and in the other three, he stank).

]]> By: Raphy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/649/comment-page-1#comment-4529 Raphy Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:54:06 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/649#comment-4529 Tiant's ERA increased 2.11 points. That was the second largest jump among pitchers who qualified for the title in both years. Only Steve Blass had a harder time adjusting. Tiant's ERA increased 2.11 points. That was the second largest jump among pitchers who qualified for the title in both years. Only Steve Blass had a harder time adjusting.

]]> By: DmbCubFan http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/649/comment-page-1#comment-4528 DmbCubFan Wed, 30 Apr 2008 06:33:28 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/649#comment-4528 1968 -- Commonly known as the year of the pitcher. After one of MLB's most pitching dominant season, they decided to lower the mound to 10 inches to put more power to the batter. Find me a pitcher whose stats didn't severely drop from 1968 to 1969... actually, that might be a great stat of the day topic 1968 -- Commonly known as the year of the pitcher.

After one of MLB's most pitching dominant season, they decided to lower the mound to 10 inches to put more power to the batter.

Find me a pitcher whose stats didn't severely drop from 1968 to 1969...

actually, that might be a great stat of the day topic

]]> By: Raphy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/649/comment-page-1#comment-4527 Raphy Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:04:59 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/649#comment-4527 Wow. That's some drop-off Tiant had. In 1968 he lost his 7th game in his team's 108th game. In 1969 he lost his 7th game in his team's 28th game. Wow. That's some drop-off Tiant had.
In 1968 he lost his 7th game in his team's 108th game.
In 1969 he lost his 7th game in his team's 28th game.

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