Comments on: Ubaldo Jimenez, Jaime Garcia, and fewer earned runs than starts http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/6401 This and that about baseball stats. Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:01:55 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: Johnny Twisto http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/6401/comment-page-1#comment-21899 Fri, 28 May 2010 16:21:45 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=6401#comment-21899 Wow, I actually didn't realize Keefe pitched so little in his record season. He was clearly the secondary pitcher on that team (Troy), as Mickey Welch started 64 games. In an 8-team league, he was 15th in IP, with less than 1/6 as many IP as the league leader. He did qualify for the ERA title by modern standards, but that is another questionable record. I'd guess any contemporary observers would find hilarious the notion that Keefe's season was particularly memorable.

A few years later, of course, Keefe and Welch would team up for the Giants as one of the great 1-2 pitching combos in history, with a more equitable distribution of work.

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By: Gerry http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/6401/comment-page-1#comment-21838 Fri, 28 May 2010 02:02:13 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=6401#comment-21838 Andy, the reasons JT cited - pitching underhand, and pitching from 50 feet away - were gone in 1893. If you're going to draw a line between two kinds of baseball, I think 1893 is a better place to draw it than 1901.

I won't be drawn on saves, but I think starts and earned runs were real stats in 1880, and meant pretty much the same thing then that they mean now. It's true that ERA was not an official stat in 1880 - but it wasn't an official stat in 1914, either, so there goes Dutch Leonard.

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By: Andy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/6401/comment-page-1#comment-21824 Thu, 27 May 2010 23:48:15 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=6401#comment-21824 Yeah I was a little sloppy there. I searched since 1901 because there were so many statistically odd seasons for pitchers before 1901 due to the reasons JT cited. I find it like searching for saves from the period before saves were a real stat. If managers didn't even know what a save was, are save numbers from that period meaningful at all?

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By: Gerry http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/6401/comment-page-1#comment-21821 Thu, 27 May 2010 23:17:45 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=6401#comment-21821 Johnny Twisto, I'm glad you mentioned Tim Keefe's 1880. 12 starts and 10 earned runs should earn him a place on the list above, but evidently "all-time" means "since 1901." And what happened to Mordecai Brown, 1906? 32 starts and 32 earned runs, he should be on top of the table! OK, I get it, the body of the post says, "at least as many games as the total number of earned runs they've allowed," but the title says, "fewer earned runs than starts." Brown qualifies under the former, but not under the latter.

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By: Baseball-Reference Blog » Blog Archive » Ubaldo Jimenez, Jaime … | baseballcn http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/6401/comment-page-1#comment-21816 Thu, 27 May 2010 22:45:17 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=6401#comment-21816 [...] See the article here: Baseball-Referen&#99&#101&#32Blog » Blog Archive » Ubaldo Jimenez, Jaime … [...]

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By: Johnny Twisto http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/6401/comment-page-1#comment-21797 Thu, 27 May 2010 19:27:51 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=6401#comment-21797 I've never understood why Dutch Leonard's record is almost completely forgotten. Everyone knows about Gibson '68 and I think most people believe that is the ERA record. I mean, people should be excited by a full-season ERA below 1.00. (Of course, Leonard did not pitch that many IP by the standards of his day, and the league may have been a bit diluted due to the Federal League, but those types of circumstances exist for almost any record.)

(Technically, the real ERA record is Tim Keefe's 0.86 in 1880, but since I think he was pitching underhand from 50 feet away, it's hardly the same game.)

(And it is worth remembering Gibson as the post-1920 record-holder, though it doesn't seem it was any easier to hit in 1968 than 1914, live ball or not.)

(Enough parens.)

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By: Frank Clingenpeel http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/6401/comment-page-1#comment-21782 Thu, 27 May 2010 17:51:50 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=6401#comment-21782 Looking at these nubers, I wonder how long it will be before Bob Gibson's 1968 totals are eclipsed {I am also assuing that it will take a freak performance for anyone to touch Leonard's mark. It will happen, mind you; but it will be one of those "Once in a Lifetime" events.

P.S. -- Contrary to popular opinion, I was NOT there to see Dutch do his thing.

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By: Andy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/6401/comment-page-1#comment-21768 Thu, 27 May 2010 16:34:56 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=6401#comment-21768 Pitchers Hit Eighth--what a great name for a Cardinals/LaRussa fan!

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By: Pitchers Hit Eighth http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/6401/comment-page-1#comment-21767 Thu, 27 May 2010 16:34:07 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=6401#comment-21767 Garcia has been a wonderful surprise for Cardinal fans, including those of us like me who were stumping for him early on in camp.

It's a shame that his offense can't do more for him right now.

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