Comments on: Pure Backstops Who Can Stick http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/5218 This and that about baseball stats. Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:01:55 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: Frank Clingenpeel http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/5218/comment-page-1#comment-15421 Wed, 07 Apr 2010 02:13:46 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=5218#comment-15421 A simple statement, Johnny Twisto; Maris {whom you listed as not having reached the HOF} is in, primarily for his part of the "M-and-M" tandom {with Mantle, of course} as a YANKEE. Also; that "Yankee Magic" does add to a player's mystique; but that is primarily because {and as a Reds fan, this hurts me to admit} the Highlanders/Yankees have always been a well-managed and well-run organization.

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By: Zachary http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/5218/comment-page-1#comment-12755 Thu, 01 Apr 2010 23:03:51 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=5218#comment-12755 Piazza has never been officially linked to steroids. I think the writers will give that far, far more weight.

I don't want to derail this thread anymore, though, so I leave it at that.

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By: bdunc8 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/5218/comment-page-1#comment-12753 Thu, 01 Apr 2010 22:45:58 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=5218#comment-12753 I wasn't necessarily saying Piazza should be in or out. But, I'm guessing HoF voters will say "out". Personally, I think he should be in, along with Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, etc. Jeff Pearlman had some first hand accounts about Piazza's alleged steroid use that he included in "The Rocket That Fell To Earth". That is where those quotes came from. A reporter claims that Piazza actually admitted his steroid use to him. This isn't hard evidence, but usually where there's smoke, there's fire.

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By: Zachary http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/5218/comment-page-1#comment-12751 Thu, 01 Apr 2010 22:24:34 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=5218#comment-12751 I'd actually like some, you know, evidence before throwing Piazza out. The outrageously egotistical Reggie Jefferson and an opponent are not the best sources. Piazza was a home run hitter from day one (just look at his minor league stats), his numbers were never preposterous, and he fell off in his mid-30s before the big testing started. He also wasn't mentioned in the Mitchell Report, for what that's worth. None of that screams 'Roider!' to me, so until there's some evidence, I won't hold it against him. As it stands, he is - by far, I think - the best hitting catcher in major league history.

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By: Johnny Twisto http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/5218/comment-page-1#comment-12705 Thu, 01 Apr 2010 06:08:05 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=5218#comment-12705 Yeah, I figured Rizzuto would be the guy mentioned. Did he get elected because he was a Yankee? Who can say? Maybe he got elected because he remained in the public eye as a broadcaster, and had a loyal group of supporters pushing for his election for many years. Or maybe he got elected because if one considers that he lost three prime seasons to the war, suffered from malaria after returning home, and was an outstanding defender, there's more to his case than the numbers appear to show.

Anyway, Rizzuto's election alone doesn't prove anything about how the electorate considers Yankees. I listed a bunch of players for whom cases could be made, but who haven't been elected. Are there a lot of Yankees in the HOF who don't belong? Combs? He's more a case of inflated '20s numbers, imo. How do people expect Bernie Williams to do? I doubt he'll get many votes, but there's certainly a HOF case that could be made for him too.

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By: bdunc8 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/5218/comment-page-1#comment-12703 Thu, 01 Apr 2010 01:47:30 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=5218#comment-12703 The next couple of HoF elections are going to be very interesting. But, at this point it seems clear than no one can be considered a "lock" if they have been linked to steroids. And Piazza certainly has:

"He's a guy who did it, and everybody knows it," says Reggie Jefferson, the longtime major league first baseman. "It's amazing how all these names, like Roger Clemens, are brought up, yet Mike Piazza goes untouched."

"There was nothing more obvious than Mike on steroids," says another major league veteran who played against Piazza for years. "Everyone talked about it, everyone knew it. Guys on my team, guys on the Mets. A lot of us came up playing against Mike, so we knew what he looked like back in the day. Frankly, he sucked on the field. Just sucked. After his body changed, he was entirely different. 'Power from nowhere,' we called it."

When asked, on a scale of 1 to 10, to grade the odds that Piazza had used performance enhancers, the player doesn't pause.

"A 12," he says. "Maybe a 13."

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By: Dan Franzen http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/5218/comment-page-1#comment-12702 Thu, 01 Apr 2010 01:35:01 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=5218#comment-12702 Rizzuto?

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By: Johnny Twisto http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/5218/comment-page-1#comment-12701 Thu, 01 Apr 2010 01:24:12 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=5218#comment-12701 Who got elected due to Yankees mystique? Not Mattingly. Not Keller. Not Maris. Not Howard. Not Munson. Not Guidry.

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By: Rich http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/5218/comment-page-1#comment-12700 Thu, 01 Apr 2010 00:12:37 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=5218#comment-12700 Jorge plays*

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By: Rich http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/5218/comment-page-1#comment-12699 Thu, 01 Apr 2010 00:12:15 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=5218#comment-12699 I'm surprised you'd say Piazza is a lock, but not Posada. Jorge played for the Yankees. New York players always get special consideration cause of the stupid "mystique" of the Yankees. Piazza should be a lock, but some writers probably think he did steroids.

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