Comments on: Rickey, Raines & Butler 1982 to 1995

By: tangotiger

tangotiger — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:32:14 +0000

Runs produced (R+RBI-HR) has Rickey and Raines almost a dead match in Steve's list above.

Rather than looking at years, it's fairer to look at it by age. After all, why have Raines' age 22-24 and Butler's 36-38?

By: admin

admin — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 19:56:02 +0000

Raines was also clearly hammered by the strikes. In 1981 he had 71 steals in just 88 games. He may have broken Brock's record in a full season. He also missed time during all of the other work stoppages. He lost about 3/4ths of a season to strikes.

By: kingturtle

kingturtle — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:53:28 +0000

Can you compare Butler, Henderson and Raines with Molitor, Lonnie Smith, Brian Downing, Boggs and Willie Wilson...providing lifetime totals between 1982 and 1995, and limit it to Batting Order Position 1st?

By: Andy

Andy — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:49:48 +0000

I'm amazed how well Butler stacks up there...clearly the 'worst' of the three, but not by as much as I would have guessed.

By: hopbitters

hopbitters — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:02:31 +0000

Among the top 10 offensive LF all-time (RCAA). Probably 3rd best leadoff hitter ever. Cooperstown can debate in perpetuity. They have no relevance when it comes to evaluating careers.

By: kingturtle

kingturtle — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:30:48 +0000

I can't believe there's any debate. I'm from the Joe Medwick school of Hall of Fame voting. Career milestones are overrated. Show me what the guy did in his ten best seasons.

By: David in Toledo

David in Toledo — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:57:38 +0000

Agreed. If by getting more playing time, Raines had 200 more career times on base and 400 win shares, he'd be a more certain slam dunk.

I added total bases to walks and hbp and steals, substracting times caught stealing and double plays grounded into. The totals are 5007 for Tony Gwynn and 5665 for Tim Raines.

When you divide these by respective plate appearances, you get these percentages: Gwynn, .489; Raines, 547. That is, for every time Tony Gwynn came to bat, there was a .489 likelihood that he would advance a base. For Tim Raines, .547.

Or look at career win shares: Gwynn 398, Raines 390, Roberto Clemente 377, Billy Williams 374, Willie Stargell 370, Lou Brock 348, Joe Medwick 312, Jim Rice 282.