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	<title>Comments on: Bloops: Book of Odds</title>
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	<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3792</link>
	<description>This and that about baseball stats.</description>
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		<title>By: BLT</title>
		<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3792/comment-page-1#comment-10278</link>
		<dc:creator>BLT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:47:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3792#comment-10278</guid>
		<description>511 is a pretty safe number for wins ... at least until training gets so good that guys can play into their 80s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>511 is a pretty safe number for wins ... at least until training gets so good that guys can play into their 80s.</p>
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		<title>By: DoubleDiamond</title>
		<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3792/comment-page-1#comment-10222</link>
		<dc:creator>DoubleDiamond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 00:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3792#comment-10222</guid>
		<description>I remember reading several years ago (but already in the 2000s or oughts or whatever you call this decade) in a book published around 1975 that, in the opinion of the author (Peter with a last name I have forgotten how to spell who has written several team history books) or someone the author was quoting that there were three records that would never get broken:

1. Cy Young&#039;s 511 career wins
2. Joe DiMaggio&#039;s 56-game hitting streak
3. Lou Gehrig&#039;s 2,130 consecutive games streak

One down and two to go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember reading several years ago (but already in the 2000s or oughts or whatever you call this decade) in a book published around 1975 that, in the opinion of the author (Peter with a last name I have forgotten how to spell who has written several team history books) or someone the author was quoting that there were three records that would never get broken:</p>
<p>1. Cy Young's 511 career wins<br />
2. Joe DiMaggio's 56-game hitting streak<br />
3. Lou Gehrig's 2,130 consecutive games streak</p>
<p>One down and two to go.</p>
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		<title>By: TheGoofyOne</title>
		<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3792/comment-page-1#comment-10221</link>
		<dc:creator>TheGoofyOne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 23:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3792#comment-10221</guid>
		<description>I believe that Gould concluded that DiMaggio&#039;s streak was the greatest statistical streak in sports, the only one beyond probability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that Gould concluded that DiMaggio's streak was the greatest statistical streak in sports, the only one beyond probability.</p>
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		<title>By: gerry</title>
		<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3792/comment-page-1#comment-10219</link>
		<dc:creator>gerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 23:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3792#comment-10219</guid>
		<description>Good point about how quickly DiMaggio was elected. I think you have to add Ruth to the list of those elected quicker than DiMaggio. Also Stengel, if you include managers, and Connie Mack was inducted more than a decade before he retired.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point about how quickly DiMaggio was elected. I think you have to add Ruth to the list of those elected quicker than DiMaggio. Also Stengel, if you include managers, and Connie Mack was inducted more than a decade before he retired.</p>
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		<title>By: JohnnyTwisto</title>
		<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3792/comment-page-1#comment-10217</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnnyTwisto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 22:28:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3792#comment-10217</guid>
		<description>Gerry is right -- there was a de facto 5-year waiting period, but it was not codified, and obviously not all voters observed it.  I believe DiMaggio actually got elected quicker (three years after retiring) than anyone except Clemente and Gehrig, yet for some reason fans always repeat how he was &quot;snubbed&quot; a couple times.  

I recall that Steven Jay Gould calculated that DiMaggio&#039;s streak was actually _not_ within the bounds of statistical likelihood.  I don&#039;t remember what numbers he used to conclude that.

I have always thought the streak (and most streaks) was overrated.  Though it&#039;s exceedingly unlikely, one could get one hit a day for 60 games in a row.  They&#039;ve set a new record but were not particularly good hitters over that period.  Plus there are all the stories about questionable scoring decisions which kept the streak going.  Anything so reliant on simple accounting decisions loses a lot of luster in my book.  It&#039;s an interesting feat but to me not as remarkable as records like Cy Young&#039;s wins or something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gerry is right -- there was a de facto 5-year waiting period, but it was not codified, and obviously not all voters observed it.  I believe DiMaggio actually got elected quicker (three years after retiring) than anyone except Clemente and Gehrig, yet for some reason fans always repeat how he was "snubbed" a couple times.  </p>
<p>I recall that Steven Jay Gould calculated that DiMaggio's streak was actually _not_ within the bounds of statistical likelihood.  I don't remember what numbers he used to conclude that.</p>
<p>I have always thought the streak (and most streaks) was overrated.  Though it's exceedingly unlikely, one could get one hit a day for 60 games in a row.  They've set a new record but were not particularly good hitters over that period.  Plus there are all the stories about questionable scoring decisions which kept the streak going.  Anything so reliant on simple accounting decisions loses a lot of luster in my book.  It's an interesting feat but to me not as remarkable as records like Cy Young's wins or something.</p>
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		<title>By: JDV</title>
		<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3792/comment-page-1#comment-10215</link>
		<dc:creator>JDV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 19:01:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3792#comment-10215</guid>
		<description>Then a friend asked what the correct equivalent comparisons at .350 are:

- While a .350 hitter has only a 0.0017% chance of getting at least one hit in 56 consecutive games;
- A .350 hitter&#039;s chance of going hitless in only 6.5 consecutive games (26 at-bats) is a mere 0.0014%;
- Further, a .350 hitter&#039;s chance of getting a hit in eleven consecutive at-bats is less than 0.0010%

...after which he pointed out that both of these new numbers weakened my assertion.  Uh...yup...but I&#039;ll still call it an anomaly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then a friend asked what the correct equivalent comparisons at .350 are:</p>
<p>- While a .350 hitter has only a 0.0017% chance of getting at least one hit in 56 consecutive games;<br />
- A .350 hitter's chance of going hitless in only 6.5 consecutive games (26 at-bats) is a mere 0.0014%;<br />
- Further, a .350 hitter's chance of getting a hit in eleven consecutive at-bats is less than 0.0010%</p>
<p>...after which he pointed out that both of these new numbers weakened my assertion.  Uh...yup...but I'll still call it an anomaly.</p>
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		<title>By: JDV</title>
		<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3792/comment-page-1#comment-10213</link>
		<dc:creator>JDV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3792#comment-10213</guid>
		<description>jksesq1 / BalBurgh,

You&#039;re both right.  I had run the numbers with several different BAs, and I inadvertently put the odds for a .375 hitter in that part of my post.  That obviously skewed my comparisons as well -- one of them in a direction to support my assertion, but the other in a direction to weaken it.  My &quot;therefore&quot; should have looked like this:

- While a .375 hitter has only a 0.0094% chance of getting at least one hit in 56 consecutive games;
- A .375 hitter&#039;s chance of going hitless in only FIVE consecutive games is a mere 0.0083%;
- Further, a .375 hitter&#039;s chance of getting a hit in TEN consecutive at-bats is less than 0.0055%.

Thanks for the correction.  Oh...for those who saw huge differences at a glance, my figures are percentages rather than decimals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jksesq1 / BalBurgh,</p>
<p>You're both right.  I had run the numbers with several different BAs, and I inadvertently put the odds for a .375 hitter in that part of my post.  That obviously skewed my comparisons as well -- one of them in a direction to support my assertion, but the other in a direction to weaken it.  My "therefore" should have looked like this:</p>
<p>- While a .375 hitter has only a 0.0094% chance of getting at least one hit in 56 consecutive games;<br />
- A .375 hitter's chance of going hitless in only FIVE consecutive games is a mere 0.0083%;<br />
- Further, a .375 hitter's chance of getting a hit in TEN consecutive at-bats is less than 0.0055%.</p>
<p>Thanks for the correction.  Oh...for those who saw huge differences at a glance, my figures are percentages rather than decimals.</p>
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		<title>By: gerry</title>
		<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3792/comment-page-1#comment-10206</link>
		<dc:creator>gerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 05:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3792#comment-10206</guid>
		<description>I think there was something of a &quot;wait your turn&quot; mentality among the writers in the late 1940s, early 1950s - let&#039;s first vote in all the deserving guys from the 1920s and 1930s, and when we&#039;re done with that we can have a look at more recent players. 

Technically, it took 4 ballots for Joe D to get in - he got a vote in 1945. Eligibility requirements hadn&#039;t been formalized yet. 

Concerning the number of Indians fans, it may be relevant that Cleveland&#039;s population is much smaller now than it was in the 1940s and 1950s. It&#039;s true that, like most teams, they have more fans (and higher attendance) when they&#039;re good than when they&#039;re bad, but you also have to take into account the changing population, and the rise in attendance all over major league baseball over the last 20 years or so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there was something of a "wait your turn" mentality among the writers in the late 1940s, early 1950s - let's first vote in all the deserving guys from the 1920s and 1930s, and when we're done with that we can have a look at more recent players. </p>
<p>Technically, it took 4 ballots for Joe D to get in - he got a vote in 1945. Eligibility requirements hadn't been formalized yet. </p>
<p>Concerning the number of Indians fans, it may be relevant that Cleveland's population is much smaller now than it was in the 1940s and 1950s. It's true that, like most teams, they have more fans (and higher attendance) when they're good than when they're bad, but you also have to take into account the changing population, and the rise in attendance all over major league baseball over the last 20 years or so.</p>
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		<title>By: jksesq1</title>
		<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3792/comment-page-1#comment-10204</link>
		<dc:creator>jksesq1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 22:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3792#comment-10204</guid>
		<description>Balburgh, I think you&#039;re right.  Also I believe he had a 70-odd game streak with SF in the PCL which is on of the longest streaks in MINOR league history.  Safe to say, Joe D would definitely qualify as a &quot;streak hitter&quot; :)

Speaking of Joe DiMaggio, does anyone know why it took him 3 ballots to get into the Hall of Fame?  Was it his general demeanor, his frosty relationship with the press (not that those kept Ted Williams or   He finished 9th (!) in his first year of eligibility, and was behind Rabbit Frickin Maranville for each of the first two years.  What was the voters fascination with good-but-not-great players like Maranville and Dazzy Vance in the early 50&#039;s, and why would anyone think they were remotely as deserving of HOF consideration as DiMaggio?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Balburgh, I think you're right.  Also I believe he had a 70-odd game streak with SF in the PCL which is on of the longest streaks in MINOR league history.  Safe to say, Joe D would definitely qualify as a "streak hitter" <img src='http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Speaking of Joe DiMaggio, does anyone know why it took him 3 ballots to get into the Hall of Fame?  Was it his general demeanor, his frosty relationship with the press (not that those kept Ted Williams or   He finished 9th (!) in his first year of eligibility, and was behind Rabbit Frickin Maranville for each of the first two years.  What was the voters fascination with good-but-not-great players like Maranville and Dazzy Vance in the early 50's, and why would anyone think they were remotely as deserving of HOF consideration as DiMaggio?</p>
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		<title>By: BalBurgh</title>
		<link>http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3792/comment-page-1#comment-10203</link>
		<dc:creator>BalBurgh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 21:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3792#comment-10203</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve always loved this particular stat and analysis, as well as the observation that Pete Rose&#039;s 44-game streak was statistically more unlikely.  Per Jksesq1&#039;s post above, I also have DiMaggio at .0000165, but Rose at .000007175 through 44 games, with Rose&#039;s feat becoming more unlikely at the 42nd game.  I used Rose&#039;s lifetime average of .303 while noting he hit .302 the year of the streak (1978).  DiMaggio .325/.357 lifetime/1941 respectively.  The 4 averages for 56 games each yield:

.303 .000000283725
.325 .000002193158
.350 .000016513486
.357 .000027593809

Naturally the odds change a bit given the number of at-bats actually available in each game, and IIRC Rose had 5 the night his streak ended, but these figures give you something for camparison.

Last but not least, do I remember correctly that the game after the one the broke DiMaggio&#039;s streak marked the beginning of a separate 19 game streak?  ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I've always loved this particular stat and analysis, as well as the observation that Pete Rose's 44-game streak was statistically more unlikely.  Per Jksesq1's post above, I also have DiMaggio at .0000165, but Rose at .000007175 through 44 games, with Rose's feat becoming more unlikely at the 42nd game.  I used Rose's lifetime average of .303 while noting he hit .302 the year of the streak (1978).  DiMaggio .325/.357 lifetime/1941 respectively.  The 4 averages for 56 games each yield:</p>
<p>.303 .000000283725<br />
.325 .000002193158<br />
.350 .000016513486<br />
.357 .000027593809</p>
<p>Naturally the odds change a bit given the number of at-bats actually available in each game, and IIRC Rose had 5 the night his streak ended, but these figures give you something for camparison.</p>
<p>Last but not least, do I remember correctly that the game after the one the broke DiMaggio's streak marked the beginning of a separate 19 game streak?  <img src='http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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