Comments on: Announcement: Professional Sports Leagues Steroid Policies http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3550 This and that about baseball stats. Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:57:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Kincaid http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3550/comment-page-1#comment-9963 Kincaid Mon, 23 Nov 2009 07:25:45 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3550#comment-9963 UZR accounts for opportunities, whereas those other totals don't. Note in particular the DG and exO columns at FanGraphs. exO is the number of outs an average first baseman would have converted, given the same distribution of balls hit when he was on the field. DG is the number of games, on average, it takes for a first baseman to get that many expected outs. So, according the data on each batted ball recorded by Baseball Info Solutions (the company that tracks the data used to compute UZR), there were a lot more balls hit near Pujols than any other first baseman this year. Roughly 205 games worth of balls for most first basemen. So you would want to take the average plays for a first baseman over a season and extrapolate them to 205 games to compare to Pujols' totals, because that's roughly the same number of balls hit toward Pujols this season. It would be similar to seeing that one player had 180 hits while a another had 120 hits, but that both had a .280 average. The one with 180 hits had more opportunities (at bats), so once you account for opportunities, the difference is not that great, but when you just look at total hits, it is. This is obvious for hits because the opportunities (ABs) are easy to count. This is not the case with fielding opportunities, so when Albert gets a lot of opportunities in a season, that's not so obvious. Also, PO and assists for first basemen are not very telling. Most putouts are ground balls to other fielders where the first basemen just catches the throw to first, so you can't tell how many plays the first baseman actually made from put outs. A lot of assists are ground balls to first where the pitcher covers, and whether it gets recorded as an assist or a put out is entirely up to whether he tosses to the pitcher or runs to the bag himself. So the same play could be an assist for one guy but a put out for another, and you don't know how many plays are hidden as put outs and don't show up as assists for a first baseman. In general, UZR rates Pujols as a really good first baseman, he just rated lower this year than he has over his career. So it would agree with you that he is actually a very good fielder. UZR accounts for opportunities, whereas those other totals don't. Note in particular the DG and exO columns at FanGraphs. exO is the number of outs an average first baseman would have converted, given the same distribution of balls hit when he was on the field. DG is the number of games, on average, it takes for a first baseman to get that many expected outs. So, according the data on each batted ball recorded by Baseball Info Solutions (the company that tracks the data used to compute UZR), there were a lot more balls hit near Pujols than any other first baseman this year. Roughly 205 games worth of balls for most first basemen. So you would want to take the average plays for a first baseman over a season and extrapolate them to 205 games to compare to Pujols' totals, because that's roughly the same number of balls hit toward Pujols this season.

It would be similar to seeing that one player had 180 hits while a another had 120 hits, but that both had a .280 average. The one with 180 hits had more opportunities (at bats), so once you account for opportunities, the difference is not that great, but when you just look at total hits, it is. This is obvious for hits because the opportunities (ABs) are easy to count. This is not the case with fielding opportunities, so when Albert gets a lot of opportunities in a season, that's not so obvious.

Also, PO and assists for first basemen are not very telling. Most putouts are ground balls to other fielders where the first basemen just catches the throw to first, so you can't tell how many plays the first baseman actually made from put outs. A lot of assists are ground balls to first where the pitcher covers, and whether it gets recorded as an assist or a put out is entirely up to whether he tosses to the pitcher or runs to the bag himself. So the same play could be an assist for one guy but a put out for another, and you don't know how many plays are hidden as put outs and don't show up as assists for a first baseman.

In general, UZR rates Pujols as a really good first baseman, he just rated lower this year than he has over his career. So it would agree with you that he is actually a very good fielder.

]]> By: Slothbaby http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3550/comment-page-1#comment-9955 Slothbaby Sun, 22 Nov 2009 05:02:35 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3550#comment-9955 I hate to thread hijack. Conversely, I have less of a problem hijacking a thread already done been hijacked. I'm trying to get a better handle on fielding stats, particularly as my mancrush, Albert Pujols, was left out of the Gold Glove race at 1st base, presumably because he committed 13 errors, second only to Ryan Howard among regular 1b in the NL. Though he did it, despite having more putouts, double plays, and assists (in most cases by FAR) than anyone else. Which leads, quite clearly, to having the highest range factor out there. This I understand. What I don't understand is UZR, and the fact that despite the leaps and bounds better aspects of AP's quantitative fielding stats, his UZR is quite a bit more pedestrian. I realize that there are park factors and such that get mixed into it...but something seems a bit strange. I'm using info on Fangraphs, NL only, 1b only. Hopefully this link works: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=1b&stats=fld&lg=nl&qual=y&type=0&season=2009&month=0 Help make a newbie less stupid. I hate to thread hijack.
Conversely, I have less of a problem hijacking a thread already done been hijacked.

I'm trying to get a better handle on fielding stats, particularly as my mancrush, Albert Pujols, was left out of the Gold Glove race at 1st base, presumably because he committed 13 errors, second only to Ryan Howard among regular 1b in the NL. Though he did it, despite having more putouts, double plays, and assists (in most cases by FAR) than anyone else. Which leads, quite clearly, to having the highest range factor out there.

This I understand.

What I don't understand is UZR, and the fact that despite the leaps and bounds better aspects of AP's quantitative fielding stats, his UZR is quite a bit more pedestrian. I realize that there are park factors and such that get mixed into it...but something seems a bit strange. I'm using info on Fangraphs, NL only, 1b only. Hopefully this link works:

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=1b&stats=fld&lg=nl&qual=y&type=0&season=2009&month=0

Help make a newbie less stupid.

]]> By: Andy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3550/comment-page-1#comment-9949 Andy Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:48:51 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3550#comment-9949 kingman gets a lot of attention because of that 20-loss season....simple as that. kingman gets a lot of attention because of that 20-loss season....simple as that.

]]> By: Yankees93 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3550/comment-page-1#comment-9948 Yankees93 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:08:02 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3550#comment-9948 The reason why brian kingman has so many views is because he had such a bad season that year, so he visits his profile every day so people think he is a good baseball player The reason why brian kingman has so many views is because he had such a bad season that year, so he visits his profile every day so people think he is a good baseball player

]]> By: cubbies http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3550/comment-page-1#comment-9947 cubbies Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:01:27 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3550#comment-9947 *willie mccovey sorry bad spelling *willie mccovey
sorry bad spelling

]]> By: cubbies http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3550/comment-page-1#comment-9946 cubbies Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:00:01 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3550#comment-9946 totally unrelated question to this post: i was looking through the most viewed pages on this site, and i noticed that Brian Kingman had the 151st most views, 2000 more views than willie mccovie, the next on the list. Why is he so high up? He had a short career, and his only claim to fame was his 20 loss season, the 2nd most recent pitcher to do that (mike maroth in '03). I cant think of any other reason why so many poeple whould want to view his page. any thoughts? totally unrelated question to this post:
i was looking through the most viewed pages on this site, and i noticed that Brian Kingman had the 151st most views, 2000 more views than willie mccovie, the next on the list. Why is he so high up? He had a short career, and his only claim to fame was his 20 loss season, the 2nd most recent pitcher to do that (mike maroth in '03). I cant think of any other reason why so many poeple whould want to view his page.
any thoughts?

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