Comments on: Players with the most 90-99 RBI seasons and worst 100-RBI seasons http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/355 This and that about baseball stats. Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:57:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: kingturtle http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/355/comment-page-1#comment-1380 kingturtle Fri, 12 Oct 2007 03:45:49 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/355#comment-1380 Interesting idea. I thought I'd look at 2007. Looks like the AL has more breadth because of the DH, while the NL is more about 3, 4, 5 hitters. 2007 AL Rodriguez-NYY (batted 4th) Ordonez-DET (batted 4th) Guerrero-LAA (batted 3rd & 4th) Pena-TBD (batted 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th) Lowell-BOS (batted 6th) Ortiz-BOS (batted 3rd) Martinez-CLE (batted 4th & 3rd) Markakis-BAL (batted 3rd & 2nd) Morneau-MIN (batted 4th & 5th) Hunter-MIN (batted 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th) NL 2007 Holliday-COL (batted 3rd) Howard-PHI (batted 4th) Cabrera-FLA (batted 3rd & 4th) Fielder-MIL (batted 3rd & 4th) Lee-HOU (batted 4th) Hawpe-COL (batted 6th) Beltran-NYM (batted 3rd & 4th) Atkins-COL (batted 5th) Wright-NYM (batted 3rd, 4th, 5th) Dunn-CIN (batted mostly 5th) Interesting idea. I thought I'd look at 2007. Looks like the AL has more breadth because of the DH, while the NL is more about 3, 4, 5 hitters.

2007 AL
Rodriguez-NYY (batted 4th)
Ordonez-DET (batted 4th)
Guerrero-LAA (batted 3rd & 4th)
Pena-TBD (batted 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th)
Lowell-BOS (batted 6th)
Ortiz-BOS (batted 3rd)
Martinez-CLE (batted 4th & 3rd)
Markakis-BAL (batted 3rd & 2nd)
Morneau-MIN (batted 4th & 5th)
Hunter-MIN (batted 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th)

NL 2007
Holliday-COL (batted 3rd)
Howard-PHI (batted 4th)
Cabrera-FLA (batted 3rd & 4th)
Fielder-MIL (batted 3rd & 4th)
Lee-HOU (batted 4th)
Hawpe-COL (batted 6th)
Beltran-NYM (batted 3rd & 4th)
Atkins-COL (batted 5th)
Wright-NYM (batted 3rd, 4th, 5th)
Dunn-CIN (batted mostly 5th)

]]> By: Andy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/355/comment-page-1#comment-1375 Andy Fri, 12 Oct 2007 01:03:22 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/355#comment-1375 I think the issue I am trying to get at is that there are many more players nowadays that have a decent chance of getting in the top 10, whereas in Perez' day, only the 3, 4, and perhaps 5 hitters had a chance. And, look, I am not disagreeing with your overall point. I'm just saying that the top-10 metric is, like all other stats, limited. I think the issue I am trying to get at is that there are many more players nowadays that have a decent chance of getting in the top 10, whereas in Perez' day, only the 3, 4, and perhaps 5 hitters had a chance.

And, look, I am not disagreeing with your overall point. I'm just saying that the top-10 metric is, like all other stats, limited.

]]> By: kingturtle http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/355/comment-page-1#comment-1374 kingturtle Fri, 12 Oct 2007 00:55:23 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/355#comment-1374 By the way, I am not saying Chipper Jones is a bad player. But I am saying that I find Perez's RBI numbers more impressive than Jones' because of the top-ten element. By the way, I am not saying Chipper Jones is a bad player. But I am saying that I find Perez's RBI numbers more impressive than Jones' because of the top-ten element.

]]> By: kingturtle http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/355/comment-page-1#comment-1373 kingturtle Fri, 12 Oct 2007 00:54:14 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/355#comment-1373 It isn't about Jones having few opportunities than Perez. It's about Perez performing well in RBIs year after year among his peers. Jones was getting 100 RBIs, but not placing in the top ten each year. It isn't about Jones having few opportunities than Perez. It's about Perez performing well in RBIs year after year among his peers. Jones was getting 100 RBIs, but not placing in the top ten each year.

]]> By: Andy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/355/comment-page-1#comment-1372 Andy Fri, 12 Oct 2007 00:11:06 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/355#comment-1372 A bit more data I should have included: Jones has had 8143 total PAs, and 2344 of those had RISP (28.8%) Perez had 10861 total PAs, and 3405 of those had RISP (31.4%) So, at least by that metric, Jones seems to have had fewer opportunities. A bit more data I should have included:

Jones has had 8143 total PAs, and 2344 of those had RISP (28.8%)
Perez had 10861 total PAs, and 3405 of those had RISP (31.4%)

So, at least by that metric, Jones seems to have had fewer opportunities.

]]> By: Andy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/355/comment-page-1#comment-1371 Andy Fri, 12 Oct 2007 00:07:58 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/355#comment-1371 I agree in principle with your Perez/Jones comparison. Looking at OPS+, Perez was at 122 for his career while Jones is at 144. If you take out Perez' substandard performance from age 39 on, his OPS+ for his career through age 38 was about 125. So, I'd definitely say it's tough to tear down Chipper, or suggest he's not as good a player as Perez was. I also wonder about the current offensive environment, where we have more productive 6-, 7-, and 8-spot hitters than in Perez' era. Offense overall is increased, but I wonder how Chipper's total opportunities compare with Perez. With RISP, Perez had 1234 RBI in 3405 PA, or 0.362 RBIs per PA. With RISP, Jones has 880 RBI in 2344 PA, or 0.375 RBIs per PA. Pretty similar... I agree in principle with your Perez/Jones comparison. Looking at OPS+, Perez was at 122 for his career while Jones is at 144. If you take out Perez' substandard performance from age 39 on, his OPS+ for his career through age 38 was about 125.
So, I'd definitely say it's tough to tear down Chipper, or suggest he's not as good a player as Perez was.
I also wonder about the current offensive environment, where we have more productive 6-, 7-, and 8-spot hitters than in Perez' era. Offense overall is increased, but I wonder how Chipper's total opportunities compare with Perez.
With RISP, Perez had 1234 RBI in 3405 PA, or 0.362 RBIs per PA.
With RISP, Jones has 880 RBI in 2344 PA, or 0.375 RBIs per PA.
Pretty similar...

]]> By: kingturtle http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/355/comment-page-1#comment-1370 kingturtle Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:32:38 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/355#comment-1370 Above I mentioned Tony Perez's 10 consecutive seasons in the top-10 for RBIs. Chipper Jones has only been in the top-10 once! Which is more impressive? Chipper's seven straight seasons with 100+ RBIs, or Perez's 10 consecutive seasons in the top-10? Aaron, Mays, Ott, F Robinson, DiMaggio and Mize also had 10 consecutive seasons. Simmons had 11, Anson 12, Gehrig and Foxx 13, Musial, Wagner and Crawford with 15 consecutive seasons. So Perez's feat is awfully impressive. Above I mentioned Tony Perez's 10 consecutive seasons in the top-10 for RBIs. Chipper Jones has only been in the top-10 once! Which is more impressive? Chipper's seven straight seasons with 100+ RBIs, or Perez's 10 consecutive seasons in the top-10?

Aaron, Mays, Ott, F Robinson, DiMaggio and Mize also had 10 consecutive seasons. Simmons had 11, Anson 12, Gehrig and Foxx 13, Musial, Wagner and Crawford with 15 consecutive seasons. So Perez's feat is awfully impressive.

]]> By: vonhayes http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/355/comment-page-1#comment-1368 vonhayes Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:16:57 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/355#comment-1368 Just messing around. I will try. Just messing around. I will try.

]]> By: Andy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/355/comment-page-1#comment-1366 Andy Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:13:35 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/355#comment-1366 vonhayes, I didn't steal your idea. I gave you full credit on the original post. I suggest you reign things in a bit. vonhayes, I didn't steal your idea. I gave you full credit on the original post. I suggest you reign things in a bit.

]]> By: savoyspecial http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/355/comment-page-1#comment-1365 savoyspecial Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:22:39 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/355#comment-1365 Not to get off topic, but Beckett and Sabathia had remarkably similar seasons. There is no statistical difference between their ERA, ERA+, wins, K/9, BB/9, HR allowed, BAA, or WHIP. Sabathia has more IP, but Beckett has more CG and SHO. If Beckett wins the Cy, the question will be what gave him the edge over Sabathia with all statistical variables being equal. I would argue that his presence in the larger market of Boston carried more weight than the aura of 20 wins. Not to get off topic, but Beckett and Sabathia had remarkably similar seasons. There is no statistical difference between their ERA, ERA+, wins, K/9, BB/9, HR allowed, BAA, or WHIP. Sabathia has more IP, but Beckett has more CG and SHO. If Beckett wins the Cy, the question will be what gave him the edge over Sabathia with all statistical variables being equal. I would argue that his presence in the larger market of Boston carried more weight than the aura of 20 wins.

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