Comments on: Andy Pettitte notes http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3231 This and that about baseball stats. Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:01:55 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: Jgeller http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3231/comment-page-1#comment-9728 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 05:11:37 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3231#comment-9728 I'm as much of an Andy Pettitte fan as the next guy. I just don't think right now he's getting in. He's got very good numbers. He's probably one of the best postseason pitchers ever based on numbers and success. But he's not quite there.

On the HGH, he hasn't had much backlash since his public apology last spring. I think the general feeling i've gotten is that the public has been mostly forgiving the guys who just come out when confronted and admit to it. It's the guys who hide from the truth that are getting shell shocked. I don't see it having much of any effect on his Hall of Fame votes except for maybe up to 5 voters who say "he took it, he's out".

Now if he pitches a few more seasons, perhaps he gets there. Before 2008, people were calling Mike Mussina a borderline candidate for the Hall of Fame, much as where Pettitte is now. Then Mussina threw that great 2008 season, got his 20 win season, and improved his career numbers. Now he's more on the "YES" side of the line than the no. So who's to say that if Pettitte doesn't have 2 more solid seasons of above league average ERA and 30 combined wins that that won't be enough.

Speaking of Mussina. He was on some very good teams for most of his career but never won the big one. He still had gas left in the tank when he retired. Now the team he would have been on won the World Series. How do you think he's feeling right now?

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By: Andy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3231/comment-page-1#comment-9697 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:10:37 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3231#comment-9697 I'm sure kingturtle meant to say MORE resistant to injuries.

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By: kingturtle http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3231/comment-page-1#comment-9696 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:07:10 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3231#comment-9696 HGH, like steroids, can be prescribed legally for some circumstances. In fact, Pettitte obtained some of his HGH from a filled prescription of his dad's, who was gravely ill at the time. Although HGH does not enhance strength, it does enhance healing and make one less resistant to injuries. So, what it can do is boost stamina through a season, making August and September feel more like May.

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By: Djibouti http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3231/comment-page-1#comment-9695 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:38:09 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3231#comment-9695 Good stats up at #10 JT

The big difference between Cortisol and HGH (as I see it) is that Cortisol will help with the side effects of an injury while HGH will help heal and even avoid the injury in the first place. If you're healthy, taking Cortisol won't do anything other than decrease your immune system. If you're healthy and take HGH, you'll be less susceptible to injury, and grow larger (though not necessarily stronger) muscles. This of course begs the question, wouldn't we want less injured players?

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By: Andy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3231/comment-page-1#comment-9691 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 14:33:38 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3231#comment-9691 Cortisone basically reduces inflammation by limiting the body's immune response to an existing injury. HGH is more associated with growth (or re-growth) of tissue and muscle. So think of it in this over-simplified way: cortisone treats the symptoms, i.e. allows players to play with injury/pain while HGH in theory helps the injury heal.

Cortisone also has more direct side-effects on the body. HGH definitely has side-effects but they are more long-term.

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By: JohnnyTwisto http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3231/comment-page-1#comment-9689 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 14:28:03 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3231#comment-9689 Would that be different from a cortisone shot? (A steroid, though not an anabolic steroid.)

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By: Andy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3231/comment-page-1#comment-9687 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 13:34:22 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3231#comment-9687 I'm also agnostic on PEDs, but I think that HGH can be considered performance enhancing. It is an essential component in the healing process and taking HGH injections definitely speeds up healing (and perhaps has some side-effects too.) I think HGH injections can help ballplayers who not only have serious injuries but also some nagging injuries that most players get during the season. In that sense, it's "performance enhancing" in that it can help the average player to stay healthier. It doesn't make a player stronger or faster but may prevent debilitating conditions. So in the sense that it can help a player increase his health as compared to others, I'd consider it performance-enhancing.

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By: JohnnyTwisto http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3231/comment-page-1#comment-9686 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 04:03:59 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3231#comment-9686 I'm rather agnostic on PEDs. But even for those who aren't, it's my understanding that there is no evidence HGH does enhance performance.

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By: kingturtle http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3231/comment-page-1#comment-9685 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 03:28:13 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3231#comment-9685 sorry to rain on the parade, but i can't get past the HGH stuff. he admitted to using it in 2002, but said it was the only time...but later he admitted that he also used it in 2004. that's cheating in my book. what's the lesson there? cheat until you get caught; then fess up, and you get a free ride?

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By: Devon http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3231/comment-page-1#comment-9684 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 00:41:40 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=3231#comment-9684 Pettite does not get in Cooperstown with a 3.91 career ERA (interesting note: his post season ERA is almost identical to his reagular season ERA, at 3.90). Most of his career, he's had an ERA over 4 and I can't think of any HOFers who had a significant amount of 4.00+ ERA's.

Though, I think Pettitte will be remembered very fondly and get plenty of HOF support when ballot time comes. In fact, he'll probably be thought of as one of the best non-Hall of Famers. Pettite always makes me think of Allie Reynolds.

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