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ShareThisWorst, Save, Ever?
I was just playing around with Baseball-Reference.com's Play Index Pitching Game Finder and I came across this game:
Look at that line for Dave Goltz. Gotta be the worst "save" ever credited in baseball history, right? If not, for sure, it's in the team picture...
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This entry was posted on Friday, July 31st, 2009 at 8:23 am and is filed under Game Finders. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
July 31st, 2009 at 9:25 am
I wonder how many of the 2,033 in attendance stayed to see the very end.
July 31st, 2009 at 9:36 am
LOL. That attendance total caught my eye too.
July 31st, 2009 at 9:42 am
A reliever is supposed to pitch "effectively" to be awarded a save when pitching at least 3 innings with a big lead. However, the save rules were adjusted a couple times in the early '70s, so it's possible "effective" was not part of the guidelines at that time. Anyone know?
July 31st, 2009 at 10:08 am
A reliever is not required to pitch effectively to get a save. A reliever does have to pitch effectively to get a win when the starter doesn't last long enough, unless all of the relievers are ineffective.
July 31st, 2009 at 10:10 am
. . . or if he pitches long enough, effective or not.
July 31st, 2009 at 10:24 am
From my post on July 10th (post #12 on the June 22nd SUGGESTIONS page):
194 times a pitcher has allowed 3 or more runs and earned a save: shareit link ends in f7sn.
6/6/73 - 8 runs allowed in a save. Dave Goltz allows 2 runs in the 7th, 2 in the 8th, and 4 in the 9th, earning him a 3 inning save in a 13-9 game.
9/4/71 - Phil Hennigan allows 6 runs in earning a save.
8 run saves: 1
6 run saves: 1
5 run saves: 5
4 run saves: 23
3 run saves: 164
As expected, most of these were the 3 inning save variety. Only 73 of the 194 were shorter than 3 innings.
July 31st, 2009 at 11:16 am
There should be a rule that if your team has to score more runs to secure the win (to overcome the runs you allow), then you don't get a save.
If the Indians had scored one less run, even under that rule Goltz would have been credited with a save, but it would be an improvement.
July 31st, 2009 at 12:14 pm
is a save that bad if nobody is there to witness it?
July 31st, 2009 at 2:58 pm
Cleveland Stadium was one the the largest parks in MLB history, too. 78,000 seats. The MLB record attendance of 84,587 showed up for a doubleheader in 1954.
2,033 in that park must have felt extra empty.
July 31st, 2009 at 3:17 pm
The record for most empty seats at an MLB game must be at Cleveland Stadium, and I have little doubt that there weren't even close to 2,033 people in the park to witness Goltz's amazing relief performance. It was the second game of a doubleheader, the first game going 15 innings and 4:14, second game going over 3 hours.
I'll give Goltz some credit--at least he threw strikes. That's knowing how to pitch with a lead!
July 31st, 2009 at 3:53 pm
Goes to show how worthless a statistic the "save" is, even today. The win is pretty bad too.
July 31st, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Andrew, the rule was you had to pitch effectively for at least 3 innings. The B-R bullpen states that "effectively" has now been removed from the rule, but does not say when that occurred. MLB.com still shows the rule the way I remember it. And according to the Bullpen, effective pitching was required in 1973, and therefore a save should not have been awarded.
July 31st, 2009 at 5:03 pm
Oddly enough Goltz didn't have that bad of a career in the end. He even won 20 games in 1977.
July 31st, 2009 at 8:09 pm
The current save rule definitely does not require effective pitching for a three-inning save--but I looked up the 1973 rule, and effectiveness was required at that time.
July 31st, 2009 at 9:42 pm
Yikes. Goltz shouldn't get a save for allowing 8 runs to the likes of Jack Brohamer, Charlie Spikes, and the immortal Rusty Torres.
Wow, I noticed Chambliss' BA too. As of June 30, he was hitting .197. He hit .325 the rest of the way.
August 1st, 2009 at 12:11 am
Does anyone know when the "effective" requirement was removed from the save rule? I think it was quite recently but I could not find it. As I said, MLB's own site still lists the old rule, which is pretty lame.
August 1st, 2009 at 8:38 am
When I look up the rule on MLB.com (http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2008/official_rules/10_the_official_scorer.pdf), the word "effectively" isn't there. Is it somewhere else on the website, too?
August 2nd, 2009 at 9:00 am
They still have the old rule here: http://www.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/about_mlb/rules_regulations.jsp
It's not the official rulebook but it is a page that came up when I was searching on this a couple days ago.