Comments on: World Series Game 1 Pitcher’s Duels http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/15893 This and that about baseball stats. Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:01:55 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: Internet Web Directory http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/15893/comment-page-1#comment-175533 Sun, 23 Oct 2011 21:43:41 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=15893#comment-175533 Internet Web Directory...

[...]World Series Game 1 Pitcher’s Duels » Baseball-Reference Blog » Blog Archive[...]...

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By: Wolfteam Hacks http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/15893/comment-page-1#comment-173882 Thu, 20 Oct 2011 14:58:18 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=15893#comment-173882 Wolfteam Hacks...

[...]World Series Game 1 Pitcher’s Duels » Baseball-Reference Blog » Blog Archive[...]...

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By: Jimmy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/15893/comment-page-1#comment-173552 Thu, 20 Oct 2011 00:26:13 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=15893#comment-173552 I do think your right though, we'll have to agree to disagree about Ol Cornelius McGillicuddy, in my humble opinion he belongs at the bottom of the list at the top of this page.

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By: Jimmy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/15893/comment-page-1#comment-173550 Thu, 20 Oct 2011 00:21:30 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=15893#comment-173550 Lawrence I agree bad example, but he was the best I could muster at the time, my point still stands though, Mack was an important historical figure for his longevity, the fact that he owned, GMed and managed the A's and for his contribution to establishing the AL, Gandil was an important figure for setting up the White Sox's throwing of the World Series, which brought in Landis and the Commisioner and had a hand the offensive explosion of the 20's and 30's to get the fans back. I dont believe though a person being famous or Gandils case infamous for things beyond the playing field should give them credit for onfield performance. Of course this does depend on in what way you feel Mack was an inportant historical figure.

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By: Lawrence Azrin http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/15893/comment-page-1#comment-173491 Wed, 19 Oct 2011 22:03:23 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=15893#comment-173491 @66/ Jimmy - "Chick Gandils a pretty big historical figure as well, but do you consider him a great player for that? Those are two seperate things."

Yes, they are indeed two separate things:

Gandil was an important figure in one event, the throwing of the 1919 WS. He was a peripheral figure otherwise in MLB history. Connie Mack was one of the most important figures in the entire history of baseball, involved for many decades. The two are not remotely comparable for their importance.

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By: Jimmy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/15893/comment-page-1#comment-173452 Wed, 19 Oct 2011 20:36:37 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=15893#comment-173452 @65 Yeah Ive read that before about the attendance drop being part of the dismantling of the $100,000 infield team, some blame Pennsylvania Blue Laws, made since, that along with FL screwed him, still though those guys wouldve left had he not dumped them because of horrible salaries, I d have to do research on the others but Collins for example made double for Comiskey than for Mack, and we're talking about the Ebeneezer Scrooge of baseball there. He has those excuses for the first team, but they played 7 days a week in the 30's, he was a miser and atleast most of it was in his control. About the changing styles, come on any one with half a brain can play to your teams strengths, the players mostly do that without the managers help anyway. I'll give him that he had great scouts,Jack Dunn liked him (I bet he regretted not taking Babe Ruth) and could handle his players, he was the only guy that could handle Rube Waddell, and Bender never wouldve been a HOFer without Mack babying him, are great examples of that.

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By: Jimmy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/15893/comment-page-1#comment-173441 Wed, 19 Oct 2011 20:17:37 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=15893#comment-173441 Yes I do fully understand the Reserve Clause, it should have been illegal, but at the time it came in came in it was legal to sell your children into slavery. Free Agency not good either just in how it drove player salaries up WAY too high, baseball is much better than the other sports in that you have to earn that pay though instead of how with the NFL the rookies are usually the highest paid players on teams that dont have Brady or Manning. So many of these guys bitch about their salaries when the economy in this country is awful and the unemployment rate is sky high, the guys that played under the RC had a good reason to complain and I dont blame the ones that gambled and threw games the least bit. I do consider Mack an historical figure for the game, but that does that mean he should be considered a great manager, I dont think so. Chick Gandils a pretty big historical figure as well, but do you consider him a great player for that? Those are two seperate things.

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By: kds http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/15893/comment-page-1#comment-173436 Wed, 19 Oct 2011 20:10:45 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=15893#comment-173436 Jimmy, Mack's A's won the pennant 1910, 11, 13 and 14. Their attendance dropped by more than 50% while winning almost every year. It collapsed much more in 1915 after he started to break up his great team. The story is much the same for his 2nd great team, 1929-31. So his bad teams were primarily due to economic reasons out of his control.

As a manager he was also the GM, the head of development and the chief scout, (there are stories about him taking days off in the season to check out prospects).
Of the many HoFers and other good to great players who came to prominence for his A's, he developed almost all of them. They did not come from trades, and few of them had extensive minor league training before Mack got them. He thought that having a teen aged Foxx sit by him on the bench was better training than playing every day in the minors. The results don't prove him wrong. Mack was not a manager stuck in time. When the game changed as the lively ball came in he also changed. He won with dead ball teams playing the tactics of that time, and he won with power hitting teams in a power hitting era.
Mack was a great manager. He may have stuck around too long, but he lost primarily for reasons that had nothing to do with him as a manager.

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By: Lawrence Azrin http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/15893/comment-page-1#comment-173429 Wed, 19 Oct 2011 19:57:24 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=15893#comment-173429 @63/ Argman -

Yes, I admit that I did think of Dick Williams after I posted my list above; he definitely belongs in the Top-20, but the question is "where?". I'd say he's maybe a half-notch better than Herzog (hi Ed) who also belongs in the Top-20.

So I'd say D. Williams is about 12-15, and Herzog 16-18.

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By: argman http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/15893/comment-page-1#comment-173332 Wed, 19 Oct 2011 17:41:22 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=15893#comment-173332 @33 and others -
No love for Dick Williams?
One of the few who have managed three different teams to pennants, and also teams in both leagues.
All three teams he managed to pennants were basically losers, and long-term losers, before he got there. (Although the Sox and A's did have good young talent that he managed to success.)
And although he didn't win with the Expos, he got close there too.

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