Comments on: Saves > 55% Of Games Pitched http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/15048 This and that about baseball stats. Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:01:55 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: flats for rent http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/15048/comment-page-1#comment-157721 Mon, 26 Sep 2011 10:05:48 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=15048#comment-157721 Read was interesting, stay in touch…...

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By: Bill Parks http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/15048/comment-page-1#comment-152786 Fri, 16 Sep 2011 13:51:45 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=15048#comment-152786 In regards to Wilhelm - the use of relieve pitchers during his era (early '50s-to '70s) is in no way comparable to the way they have been used in the past 25 years or so. Wilhelm reached 100+ innings several times, and even qualified and won the era title as a reliever in 1954. He was used one year by Baltimore as a starter (1959) and once again won the era title. He pitchers over 2,000 total innings, and has the lowest era of all 2,000+ innings pitchers since WW2 ( just as a note-the starting pitcher with 2,000+ innings with the lowest era since WW2 is Whitey Ford). Forget the fact that he is clearly one of the greatest relievers of all-time, he is one of the greatest pitchers period.

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By: Mike L http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/15048/comment-page-1#comment-152342 Thu, 15 Sep 2011 17:30:22 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=15048#comment-152342 @43, Brent, with the Yankees lack of success in the Stengel era, you can see why it was never duplicated....

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By: Brent http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/15048/comment-page-1#comment-152327 Thu, 15 Sep 2011 16:56:38 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=15048#comment-152327 @42, Casey Stengel used his bullpen, and in fact, his entire staff, in a way no one else did in the 40s and 50s. In fact, some of his usage really has never been repeated. The 1952 Yankees, for instance, only had two pitchers throw over 150 innings, and the best starter, Allie Reynolds, also went 6 for 6 in save situations.

And yeah, that team won 95 games and the World Series.

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By: Mike L http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/15048/comment-page-1#comment-152287 Thu, 15 Sep 2011 15:24:09 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=15048#comment-152287 @38, a notable exception was Joe Page, who in his short career, was used mostly as a reliever. In 1949 Page was 13-8 with a 2.49 ERA in sixty appearances, all in relief, 135 IP, ERA+ of 156. Finished third in the MVP voting.

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By: Merlin http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/15048/comment-page-1#comment-152239 Thu, 15 Sep 2011 13:55:48 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=15048#comment-152239 I wondered why 55% and not 50% or 60%. The 60 answer is easy, there isn't anyone. But the rest ??? Anyway every 1% is change between 53-59 changes the list. (55 -54) makes the number to 6, oddly both Brian/Bryan's - Brian Wilson and Byan Harvey. Another 1% (54-53) makes it 9 - Wettland, Soria and Axford. At 56 you lose Papelbon,, 57 Sasaki and at 58 Rivera while Hoffman vanishes at 59.
Means nothing of course so why does it fascinate me .... Okay off to see my shrink...

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By: MLS http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/15048/comment-page-1#comment-152221 Thu, 15 Sep 2011 12:44:52 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=15048#comment-152221 @ Twisto..You are spot on about the catchers role concerning Wilhelm. Wilhelm's knuckler was a great pitch but many of his catchers were baffled by it as the hitters were.

As far as what the relievers "role" was in the early yrs, they were used as "stoppers". They stopped the bleeding before the game was out of hand, regardless of what inning it was. The managers had the mindset that the 9th inning wasn't the only inning the game could be won or lost. To me, unless you have a Rivera, Hoffman, Sutter, ect, that's probably the best philosophy even today.

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By: Frank Clingenpeel http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/15048/comment-page-1#comment-152220 Thu, 15 Sep 2011 12:41:52 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=15048#comment-152220 One other thought:

The way he used his bullpen {he was a forerunner of the modern strategies} is what earned Sparky Anderson his most familiar moniker -- Captain Hook. And, I believe, it was his success with this strategy that really opened the door for success stories like Sutter, Lee Smith ... the list goes on for a while.

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By: Frank Clingenpeel http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/15048/comment-page-1#comment-152216 Thu, 15 Sep 2011 12:34:50 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=15048#comment-152216 Johnny Twisto {31}

It seems to me that before the mid-Fifties, the bullpen consisted primarily of either fringe players, or old men trying to hang on just a little longer. In fact, other than Moore [who started some as well} the first pitchers used primarily as relievers that made anyone sit up and take notice were Jim Konstanty of the Phillies amd, of course, Hoyt Wilhelm. There were a few that had some decent years out of the 'pen, like Joe Beggs in 1940; but they were inevitably what would be called slash men -- starter/relievers.

Nash Bruce {37}

I also think that a stat like IRP {Inherited Runs Prevented} would be enlightening, maybe calculating on the position of the runners {the old "one point for a runner on first, two for a runner on second", etc., but also taking account the WHIP of the batters they face.

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By: Nash Bruce http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/15048/comment-page-1#comment-152199 Thu, 15 Sep 2011 10:31:01 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=15048#comment-152199 @32: I think that another cool stat would be IRA- Inherited Run Average. I'm sure that some manner of sabermetric measurement covers the dynamic of relievers allowing inherited runners to score- but, for the casual fan, this stat might work.
Essentially, the idea of assigning bases value (if I am not stating that too awkwardly) is borrowed from SLG%- If a reliever comes in, with a runner on third base, and the runner scores, then add .25 to their ER total. If an inherited runner scores from second, then add .5. First, add .75. Then, (in the same manner as one would compute ERA) multiply this total by 9, and divide by IP.

I don't even know, maybe this is being done already, somewhere, on a large scale- if so, sorry to take up everyone's time!! But, I do know, that during my Strat-O-Matic days, this was an effective stat, to ferret out bad relievers, who had a decent (conventional) ERA, despite (what was only starting to be known at the time as) a poor WHIP.

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