Comments on: Card of the Week (and Hall of Fame poll): 1997 Bowman Chrome International Refractors #127 Andruw Jones http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14678 This and that about baseball stats. Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:01:55 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: Johnny Twisto http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14678/comment-page-2#comment-150236 Mon, 12 Sep 2011 04:42:20 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14678#comment-150236 I find the Schilling and Smoltz comments here somewhat surprising. They have pretty similar numbers but Smoltz has an overall more impressive career thanks to his dominance as a starter and a closer and his post-season success.

Based on this comment, I'm not sure where you're seeing the difference. Schilling was a dominant SP who could have won a couple CYA if not for his teammate. He was one of the great post-season performers. The difference you seem to be identifying is Smoltz's closing gig, and I can't see why that would give him an advantage. (Schilling shouldn't have had to prove he was capable of closing -- obviously he was, if his team had ever needed it.)

]]>
By: Matt Y http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14678/comment-page-2#comment-149663 Sun, 11 Sep 2011 03:23:20 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14678#comment-149663 Anthony --now that's a great example of a very, very large Hall. 🙂

]]>
By: Anthony http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14678/comment-page-2#comment-149574 Sun, 11 Sep 2011 00:05:59 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14678#comment-149574 I'd vote for:
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Larry Walker
Jeff Bagwell
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Kenny Lofton
Mike Piazza
Roger Clemens
Barry Bonds
Craig Biggio
Tom Glavine
Frank Thomas
Jeff Kent
Mike Mussina
John Smoltz
Pedro Martinez
Billy Wagner
Trevor Hoffman
Ken Griffey Jr.
Gary Sheffield
Randy Johnson
Jim Edmonds
Jim Thome
Andruw Jones
Manny Ramirez
Greg Maddux

]]>
By: Matt Y http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14678/comment-page-2#comment-149345 Sat, 10 Sep 2011 16:53:12 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14678#comment-149345 If steroids are not an issue at all, then Bagwell and Piazza are locks too. Both seem to have swirling rumors surrounding them. I could certainly buy it that both were users. If nothing more comes out to tie them to steroids, I'd vote both in.

]]>
By: Matt Y http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14678/comment-page-2#comment-149343 Sat, 10 Sep 2011 16:48:16 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14678#comment-149343 As much I think Hoffman will have to wait a good number of years, I still see him as a lock getting in somewhere between years 5-10. Yes, the save has issues as a stat, and yes, relievers are hard to gauge and bit enigmatic, but still, 601 save is 601 saves.

]]>
By: Matt Y http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14678/comment-page-2#comment-149313 Sat, 10 Sep 2011 16:15:31 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14678#comment-149313 Of the three that generally get compared to one another, I see Smoltz going in years 3-5, Schilling years 6-10, and Mussina years 8-13.

]]>
By: Matt Y http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14678/comment-page-2#comment-149306 Sat, 10 Sep 2011 16:04:08 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14678#comment-149306 Andy, if Smoltz and Schilling had "pretty similar careers, then how is Smoltz an early in guy (first 5 years), and Schilling is a late never guy? That's a huge difference to me, and didn't these guys Poll about the same(~75%)?..are you banking on Schilling's big mouth hurting him that much? They both had great post season careers. I see Smoltz going in in years 4-6, and Schilling 6-10. I would actually give Schilling the slight nod for in season numbers as a starter) and post season numbers (3 chips vs 1 too). Yes, Smoltz save numbers mean alot, but still, overall, Smoltz get in a few years before Schilling unless big mouth aspect hurts Schilling alot. Schilling has bloody sock thing too.

]]>
By: Matt Y http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14678/comment-page-2#comment-149298 Sat, 10 Sep 2011 15:56:42 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14678#comment-149298 @ 110, what is your list?, because as I see it, at least 8-9 are locks at getting in the Hall. You must be a very, very, very small hall guy. 50-60 guys is about the size of your Hall.

locks are:

Glavine
Griffey
Johnson
Pedro
Biggio
Larkin
Thomas
Hoffman
add Maddux

and several others that are very very likely to get in (I would agree pretty easily with all of them except Bagwell b/c of potential steroid issues, and Martinez for being a 80% lifer DH--still on fence with Raines, but he probably should go in):

Schilling
Mussina
Kent (he's a jerk, but still will get in IMO)
Smoltz
Bagwell (steroid issue perhaps)
Martinez
Raines

and many more that are clearly borderliners for number of different reasons (not sure if I would vote for any of these guys--steroids is still an evolving issue regarding how to vote) :

Clemens
Bonds
Walker
Piazza (steroids?)
Martinez
Edmonds
Pettite
other steroid users on list

....and, Maddux was left off list and he's an automatic.

Either way, we can quibble over a few here and there (i.e Hoffman, Thomas) but as the Hall is currently constructed, there's 13-15 of these players that will fairly easily get in....and, rightfully so!

]]>
By: Andy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14678/comment-page-2#comment-149180 Sat, 10 Sep 2011 11:40:23 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14678#comment-149180 I find the Schilling and Smoltz comments here somewhat surprising. They have pretty similar numbers but Smoltz has an overall more impressive career thanks to his dominance as a starter and a closer and his post-season success. I see Smoltz as an early-ballot HOFer--within his first 5, and Schilling as a late-to-never guy.

]]>
By: SocraticGadfly http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14678/comment-page-2#comment-149111 Sat, 10 Sep 2011 08:06:20 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14678#comment-149111 @108. Larkin gets in next year. He won't be on the 2013 list. Raines, probably. Bags, possibly.

@111 Schilling is also borderline, as is Smoltz. Schilling's not a likely first-year candidate and Smoltz definitely isn't.

]]>