Comments on: Catchers, WAR/G, Min. 1,000 Games Caught http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14231 This and that about baseball stats. Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:01:55 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: Steve http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14231/comment-page-1#comment-139432 Mon, 22 Aug 2011 02:57:45 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14231#comment-139432 75 Whitaker and Trammell I'm with you on as well.Have to look closer at the numbers of the other guys you named.Lance Parrish is another guy I need to look at.

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By: Steve http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14231/comment-page-1#comment-139431 Mon, 22 Aug 2011 02:55:36 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14231#comment-139431 75 I agree about Freehan too.Outstanding defensively by all accounts and we see him in the top 15 above.Schang is the kind of guy that gets left off because he didn't put up hr/rbi totals or ba that caught the sportwriters eyes.Surprised the veterans left him out though.I know EVERYONE can't be in but of the guys that are in but if Rick Ferrel is in I don't see how you can keep the guys we named out.Munson was another one,short career or not he belongs in.

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By: Fourfriends1679 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14231/comment-page-1#comment-139413 Mon, 22 Aug 2011 02:05:06 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14231#comment-139413 Simmons should have been a 1st ballot HoF'er. He was better than both Carter and Fisk. (And I said that as a Boston fan!). Freehan also belongs, though he's no Simmons, he'd certainly make one of the better Vet's Picks.

Near as I can tell, Simmons is hurt only by playing in bench's shadow and only reaching the post season once - a loss with '82 Brewers, and he was washed up just two years later. (Which is a really stupid reason to be ignored by the hall: You happened to play for mostly medicore teams during the same time as the greatest catcher of all time played for the 1970's Reds.)

Freehan...? One of MANY Tigers who should be in but isn't. (Ask Any Tiger fan! LOL) Along with Cash, Trammell, Whitaker, possibly Lolich and (of course) everybody's LEAST FAVORITE discussion starter: Jack Morris.

*ducks*

Hey! Who threw that?!

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By: Jbird http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14231/comment-page-1#comment-139398 Mon, 22 Aug 2011 01:19:46 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14231#comment-139398 just a little rant.

every pitch is a play. one type of play. when a man reaches base, another type of play has occurred. every action in the game should get plus, minus, or zero WAR value on to every defensive player active in the game as well as any baserunners/batters. an updated multi-layered, blendable WAR formula is needed to accurately quantify players' overall and real game contribution.

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By: Jbird http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14231/comment-page-1#comment-139397 Mon, 22 Aug 2011 01:09:38 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14231#comment-139397 sorry. @41. not 38.

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By: Jbird http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14231/comment-page-1#comment-139396 Mon, 22 Aug 2011 01:08:34 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14231#comment-139396 @38. catcher much more important than short. if i only had 8 guys, short is among the positions i would forsake. catcher: not in a million. reaching first base on strikeouts all over the place.

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By: Mike B http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14231/comment-page-1#comment-139393 Mon, 22 Aug 2011 00:52:00 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14231#comment-139393 I have long made the agrument that Munson belongs in the Hall. It's funny, if a player has a short career, then he is discounted for not playing long enough. But if a player hangs around a little too long, he is accused of padding his numbers. I wish we could make up our minds on this. All I know is that in the 1970s, the best catchers were Bench, Munson, and then Fisk.

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By: Mike L http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14231/comment-page-1#comment-139376 Sun, 21 Aug 2011 23:58:19 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14231#comment-139376 Strange tangent, I admit, but this debate reminds me of the one when Garry Templeton was traded for Ozzie Smith. Ozzie was already a wizard with the glove, and was a better base stealer than Templeton, but his OPS+ was 66. Templeton had hit over .310 three times, led the league in triples three times, won a silver slugger, and had amassed 17.8 oWAR in four full seasons and parts of two others, and had very good range-a better Range Factor than Ozzie (although no one was calculating it). I remember thinking the trade was bizarre (for St. Louis-why give up Templeton for a glove man?).

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By: Johnny Twisto http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14231/comment-page-1#comment-139369 Sun, 21 Aug 2011 23:37:59 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14231#comment-139369 If we agree that the range of offensive value is much greater than that of defensive value at the position, doesn't that suggest that some teams may set the bar too high for defensive ability?

I think this is true at every position though. The range of right fielder hitting is greater than right fielder defense. I think this has to be the case, since fielding is only part of defense -- of course pitching is the majority of it.

And I agree that keeping Piazza behind the plate was probably the right thing to do. I don't remember any pitchers ever complaining about throwing to him. His pitching staffs were always among the best in the league. Measuring the cost of stolen bases is one of the simpler parts of assessing catcher defense. For as bad as his throwing was, Total Zone says his defense was only about 6 runs worse than average per full season. It's quite possible that all the things we don't really know how to measure, like framing pitches, "handling" a staff, etc, move him even closer to average. Nothing wrong with being a bit below average with with the glove when you have a bat like that.

Of course, there were probably games when he drove his fans (and team) nuts. I remember a game around 2002 when the Yankees stole about 7 bases on him and most of his throws were bouncing somewhere around the pitcher's mound. I wonder if there were certain close games against running teams where the Dodgers or Mets were almost doomed to have an uphill fight because the opposition could get that big SB if they needed it. That's a micro-analysis which WAR or any broad look at catcher defense would miss.

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By: Liam http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14231/comment-page-1#comment-139340 Sun, 21 Aug 2011 20:55:36 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=14231#comment-139340 yeah, posada is in

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