Comments on: Bloops: Brendan Ryan’s “Infield Triple” http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13599 This and that about baseball stats. Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:01:55 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: Voomo Zanzibar http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13599/comment-page-1#comment-134402 Tue, 09 Aug 2011 00:53:41 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13599#comment-134402 I dunno John, it seems that (c) - (g) omit reference to the fact that the attempt comes from the 'standard' scenario because that has already been established. And the comment-addendum to (h) does refer to a pitched ball.

Regardless of us trying to deconstruct the extended SB rules, I feel that my argument against the SB is made in the very first line, where it says "...unaided by a hit..."

Ryan hit the ball. It was his hit. It was a live ball. He got to second because the clean hit took the SS and 2B men out of position.

I do see your argument, though. And I think a case could be made for the SB for Ryan to get to third. That makes more sense than an FC, both w/r/t to the rules, and as a means of rewarding Ryan for his smarts and hustle.

Would love to see Officials for MLB to get involved in all of these discussions. This is the best baseball website, after all.

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By: John Autin http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13599/comment-page-1#comment-134356 Mon, 08 Aug 2011 20:28:14 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13599#comment-134356 @46, Voomo -- After a close re-reading of rule 10.17, I completely disagree with your analysis. Your claim that "All of the language refers to a steal attempt taking place when the pitcher has the ball, during a pitch, or after a pitch," is just not true.

1. The opening clause -- i.e., the primary definition of a stolen base -- makes no reference to the play happening during a pitch. Here is that opening:

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The official scorer shall credit a stolen base to a runner whenever the runner advances one base unaided by a hit, a putout, an error, a force-out, a fielder's choice, a passed ball, a wild pitch or a balk, subject to the following:
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2. "Subject to the following" introduces a set of individual restrictions and qualifications, namely, paragraphs (a) through (h). Only paragraphs (a) and (b) refer to your characterization of the steal, and only by way of defining specific instances in which the official scorer should not charge an error, wild pitch or passed ball. Those paragraphs are not in any way defining what is a stolen base. And paragraphs (c) through (h) make no reference to a pitch.

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By: Brendan Burke http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13599/comment-page-1#comment-133722 Sat, 06 Aug 2011 19:01:23 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13599#comment-133722 @ 51 I am completely aware of the circumstances of the Howard and Terrero plays. Actually, Terrero's was likely shorter than Ryan's as well if it was the pitcher who threw the glove.

As a sidenote to that rule, throwing the glove with the ball in it (a la Tommy John) IS A TRIPLE. The ump fucked that one up in the John incident.

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By: Voomo Zanzibar http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13599/comment-page-1#comment-133674 Sat, 06 Aug 2011 16:27:29 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13599#comment-133674 Jeter should have thrown his glove at that bloop by Lugo in October,2001.

Hey, and I figured that all the MLB brass read the posts on this site.
Why hasn't this discussion led to B.Ryan getting his xbh?

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By: Charles http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13599/comment-page-1#comment-133634 Sat, 06 Aug 2011 11:46:45 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13599#comment-133634 @ 48 Frank Howard was awarded a triple when the pitcher threw his glove at the ball. This also happened on May 28, 2005 when Luis Terrero was awarded a triple. In the game log it was ruled "Triple to P/Interference called (Ground Ball)" Luis Terrero‚ batting against Duaner Sanchez‚ hits a bouncer up the middle that goes high over Sanchez's head. Sanchez throws his glove at the ball and hits it‚ knocking it down.

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By: Johnny Twisto http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13599/comment-page-1#comment-133493 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 19:06:49 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13599#comment-133493 And of course, it *was* ruled as a FC. Maybe the scorer erred in that, but that's what it stands as now.

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By: Johnny Twisto http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13599/comment-page-1#comment-133492 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 19:04:42 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13599#comment-133492 Brendan, is there a rule that says the pitcher must have the ball for it to be considered a SB? I know the rule on SB gives examples which relate to it occurring during a pitch, but I don't see it actually defined that way.

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By: Brendan http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13599/comment-page-1#comment-133469 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 17:34:02 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13599#comment-133469 By the official scoring rules, it can't be a FC since there were no other runners to make plays on. It can't be a SB or two because the pitcher did not have the ball in the set position after Ryan reached first. The only way to score it, by rule, is a triple. That's what the rule says.

BTW, if this was ruled a triple, it would be the first infield triple since either 1964 or 1965 (Frank Howard hit a bunt triple in one of those years, which was discussed on the bunt doubles topic a while ago.)

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By: Random Recap for Thursday 8/4 » Baseball-Reference Blog » Blog Archive http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13599/comment-page-1#comment-133368 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 06:46:54 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13599#comment-133368 [...] [Rounding up the day's action while still pondering the scoring of Brendan Ryan's "infield triple"....] [...]

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By: Voomo Zanzibar http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13599/comment-page-1#comment-133365 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 06:11:22 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13599#comment-133365 @37 and 45,

The full definition of stolen base @ rule 10.07
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp

All of the language refers to a steal attempt taking place when the pitcher has the ball, during a pitch, or after a pitch. Of course a triple on a ground ball to SS seems silly, but awarding a SB during a live play after a batted ball just does not fit within the framework of the rules.

Didn't Reyes get a triple earlier this year on a ducksnort that traveled 135 feet? These things happen.

Double for the hustle, FC to get to third.
The SS and 3B both tried to cover second. Bad communication there.

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