Comments on: Rare power and speed combo: Jacoby Ellsbury, Jose Reyes, and Matt Kemp http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13256 This and that about baseball stats. Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:01:55 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: Neil L. http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13256/comment-page-1#comment-132596 Mon, 01 Aug 2011 22:02:50 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13256#comment-132596 @28
"List is a perfect example of misusing statistics to make a point that isn't there.'
Kelly, I'm still not sure what your issue is about the list. It is not trying to make Jose Reyes out to be a tape-measure home run hitter.

Note the first part of the title "Rare power and speed combo". Andy, is simply using 0.500 SLG as a measure of a reasonable number of extra bases. And on that basis, Reyes' number of total bases means he has some pop in his bat. Not over-the-fence pop, but not singles.

Jose Reyes' 2011 hitting line is anomalous because of the high number of triples and the list brings that to light. His HR total is by far the lowest on the list, as you point out.

Now Reyes has been stuck on 16 triples for a while now and may not maintain his historic triples' pace so his slugging is likely to fall below 0.500. In that case, he wouldn't qualify for these criteria.

But as to the list being a misuse of statistics and the sarcastic part of your posts @11 and @28 ...... I don't get it.

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By: Johnny Twisto http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13256/comment-page-1#comment-132584 Mon, 01 Aug 2011 20:21:52 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13256#comment-132584 Cobb was a power hitter for his time. He had the third best ISO from 1907 (when he became a regular) through 1919. Narrowly behind Joe Jackson, and well behind Gavvy Cravath, the rare deadball hitter who could routinely put the ball over the fence. It's hard to guess what his stats would look like if he were transferred to today, but I don't think he was that similar to Reyes.

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By: Neil L. http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13256/comment-page-1#comment-132522 Mon, 01 Aug 2011 16:44:40 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13256#comment-132522 @28
Kelly, you are also right about SLG in the sense that a massive singles hitter could acheive a misleading slugging average by just slapping the ball around and bunting for base hits. I think those kind of seasons, though, are rather rare in the live-ball era.

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By: Kelly http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13256/comment-page-1#comment-132515 Mon, 01 Aug 2011 16:28:30 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13256#comment-132515 @NeilL

You're right, a .500 slugging average means you are a power hitter. I was mistaken and appreciate you showing me the error of my ways.

Thus if this list went back further, we could include Ty Cobb, 1914, who "slugged" .513 and stole 35 bases in 98 games, so he would qualify for this list. Sure, he had a .368 batting average, and 75% of his hits were singles, but hey, he must have had enough "power" to drive the ball past the pitcher in order to leg out all of those singles. Cobb would be right at home here with other power hitters like Lofton and Reyes.

List is a perfect example of misusing statistics to make a point that isn't there. I love Jose Reyes too, but he is most certainly NOT an example of a Power+Speed guy.

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By: dan http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13256/comment-page-1#comment-132467 Mon, 01 Aug 2011 06:53:52 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13256#comment-132467 Ryne Sandberg had 54 stolen bases and slugged 504 in 1985.

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By: Doug http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13256/comment-page-1#comment-132285 Sun, 31 Jul 2011 01:08:20 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13256#comment-132285 @24, @25.

Thanks for the thoughtful response, JT.

Those As evidently had quite a pleasant "problem".

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By: Johnny Twisto http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13256/comment-page-1#comment-132268 Sat, 30 Jul 2011 21:31:13 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13256#comment-132268 Interestingly, '90 was the season Bonds was moved out of the leadoff spot.

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By: Johnny Twisto http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13256/comment-page-1#comment-132267 Sat, 30 Jul 2011 21:30:21 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13256#comment-132267 Good question, Doug, but I think they were. Henderson wasn't a "true" 28-HR hitter. He had topped 20 a couple times, but a few years earlier. In '88 he'd hit only 6. A safe projection would have put him around 15 HR coming into the season, so the team wouldn't have considered moving him lower in the order until well into the season. Anyway, they already had power for the middle of the order with Canseco, McGwire, and Dave Henderson. Rickey had by far the best OBP, so I think even in retrospect that leading him off was the right choice. It gave their best offensive player the most PA, and plenty of RBI opportunities for the boppers.

Who would have replaced Henderson as the leadoff hitter? Looking back, I don't see a good choice. Considering what was known entering 1990, maybe you'd consider Randolph, but he didn't join the team until May and was an aging player who'd never been that durable.

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By: Doug http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13256/comment-page-1#comment-132261 Sat, 30 Jul 2011 20:59:42 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13256#comment-132261 Take a look at Barry Bonds and Rickey Henderson's 1990 seasons, adjacent to each other on the list.

Very close matches on every number, save RBI. Were As using him properly by batting him leadoff that year?

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By: Liam http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13256/comment-page-1#comment-132252 Sat, 30 Jul 2011 19:41:32 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13256#comment-132252 Ho Jo definitely had that awesome blend of speed and power lol

funny to see him on a list with a bunch of sure fire HOFers

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