Comments on: 300/300 Club: Players with at least 300 HR and 300 SB http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13114 This and that about baseball stats. Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:01:55 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: MLS http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13114/comment-page-1#comment-130391 Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:12:36 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13114#comment-130391 Addendum: "want" Bill James. Also, I would be almost willing to tell you how good a "hitter" was by just his BA and his 162 game ave TB.

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By: MLS http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13114/comment-page-1#comment-130383 Fri, 22 Jul 2011 11:17:27 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13114#comment-130383 I've been called "old school" and "over-simplistic" kinda guy. Perhaps I am. But..if you give me a players 162 game ave in H,2B,3B,HR, BA and TB...I could tell you if that player was a great hitter or not. Sorry, I don't Bill James to tell me who was great...I can do that pretty much on my own thank you. Before..you people go viral on me..that ONLY concerns "hitting"! LOL

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By: Nash Bruce http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13114/comment-page-1#comment-130379 Fri, 22 Jul 2011 11:09:09 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13114#comment-130379 nice one, MLS, last comment for me here, it's getting late.....but, using that 162 game average as comparison, Raines has 2 more runs than my above 'Mystery Player' (Wade Boggs), and 4 less RBI's....a dead wash essentially.
Boggs was a worthy HOF. Well done, Tim!!!
(Again, no saber-math here.....smiles)

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By: MLS http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13114/comment-page-1#comment-130378 Fri, 22 Jul 2011 10:58:32 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13114#comment-130378 @Nash Bruce..you have made some very valid points and wish everyone would look at the 162 game average more often when evaluating a player! When he played, regardless of what capacity, Raines did what he was paid to do. Also, Raines was NOT a poor fielder..I think people confuse him with Brock..who was a horrible one. Whereas I look with a skewed eyeball at OBP for middle of the order guys, I do however believe OBP is a very good tool for top of the order guys. Cause that's what they're paid to do..is it not? After evaluating Raines vs Brock, the question I would like to ask anyone...IF you were to pick either one in a pick-up game...who would YOU pick?? I believe Raines outweighs Brock in almost EVERY catagory, does he not? Which goes back to my previous comment...if Brock is in..Raines should be too!

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By: Nash Bruce http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13114/comment-page-1#comment-130367 Fri, 22 Jul 2011 09:51:50 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13114#comment-130367 and, also Chuck, I do apologize, for the mis-understanding re:'top of the order guy'. I didn't mean 'leadoff guy', when I said that....I had meant, as announcers would say, 'top of the order'. 75% of Raines's career AB's, were in either the 1 or 2 spot.....
If this is about Raines's drug use, let me be clear- I don't advocate cocaine use, at all, but it would be like me drinking antifreeze, to improve my air hockey game.
It's nothing like steroids.........
If the coke equals a 'morality issue', and we are going to start going that route, then get ready to boot Ty Cobb (one of the greatest players ever, IMO) out of the Hall.......
I just don't understand. Again, I am not meaning to be a smartass:)

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By: Nash Bruce http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13114/comment-page-1#comment-130364 Fri, 22 Jul 2011 09:28:44 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13114#comment-130364 Chuck, being a Phillies fan, as a youngster, I know that ANYtime, throughout the '80's, (through good Phils teams, and much worse, lol) that Tim Raines came up, I was like, "oh s***, he is going to do some major damage."
also, please remember, that the 80's were a much lower run scoring environment......if that doesn't matter, then we are going to have to delete entire generations of players, that didn't hit 900 HRs, like the juicers in the 90's did.
Penalizing his longevity, and part-time status?? the guy posted a .413 OBP, at forty-one years of age.... . If walks are overrated, well, ok, he also hit .303.
Raines's career 162-game average, much of it which was over his allegedly "long-extended beyond productive phase": 102 Runs, 52-9 SB-CS, for an 85%success ratio(!!!!!).294BA, .385OBP.
No new numbers, or new math. The guy was money. I'd say he's even, maybe, the most forgotten/underrated player, of the 80's......

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By: Johnny Twisto http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13114/comment-page-1#comment-130327 Fri, 22 Jul 2011 05:20:05 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13114#comment-130327 Compared to the length of his career, his peak value wasn't impressive

I know this came up several weeks back. Recognizing there are multiple legitimate ways to measure player value and worthiness for the HOF, I must strongly disagree with you on this one. Based on this and your earlier posts, it seems like you count it against Raines that he kept playing as a part-timer. If he had (say) six great years in a 16-year career, that's one thing, but having those six great years in his 23 seasons is worse. How can it be worse to be good enough to stay in the league?

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By: Jimbo http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13114/comment-page-1#comment-130256 Fri, 22 Jul 2011 00:16:29 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13114#comment-130256 2605 hits, 7 straight all star selections, 808 stolen bases at one of the best percentages ever, a batting title, 2 times leading the league in runs scored, played in 4 different decades, led the league in doubles once, and had 813 career extra base hits, and even had a son that made it to the big leagues for whatever that's worth.

Yeah, just a few walks and a few stolen bases.

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By: Chuck http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13114/comment-page-1#comment-130151 Thu, 21 Jul 2011 18:04:27 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13114#comment-130151 Mr. Bruce,

You know that Raines only hit from the leadoff spot in 63% of his career games?

You're not being a smartass.

Being a "baseball man" and being a stat guy are different things.

The sabermetric infatuation with walks has a tendency to over-value some players, none moreso than Raines.

It takes much more than a few walks and a few stolen bases to be a HOFer.

Compared to the length of his career, his peak value wasn't impressive, he was a below average defensive player, and his drug use didn't help him.

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By: Nash Bruce http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/13114/comment-page-1#comment-130051 Thu, 21 Jul 2011 09:13:32 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=13114#comment-130051 @78Chuck: I'm sorry I'm so late to respond, maybe you'll never see this, but I've gotta ask: What in the hell else, do you expect, from a top of the order guy??? Raines did everything, to a T.
I'm not even meaning to be a smartass, by asking the question this way.....but, I've read, that you are a baseball man, right? So, as such, what else would you expect, from a top of the order guy?
He is very deserving of the Hall.

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