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Career 150+ IP & ERA Over 6 Since 1901

Posted by Steve Lombardi on June 22, 2011

How many players, since 1901, have pitched at least 150 big league innings with a career ERA over six?

Here is the list -

Rk Player ERA IP From To Age G GS CG SHO GF W L W-L% SV H R ER BB SO ERA+ HR BF IBB HBP BK WP Tm
1 Aaron Myette 8.16 154.1 1999 2004 21-26 47 30 0 0 7 6 12 .333 0 185 144 140 106 134 59 26 761 1 22 0 9 CHW-TEX-CLE-CIN
2 Luther Roy 7.17 170.2 1924 1929 21-26 56 17 3 0 20 6 12 .333 0 231 157 136 92 36 66 15 824   4 0 6 CLE-CHC-TOT
3 Hal Elliott 6.95 322.1 1929 1932 30-33 120 30 4 0 42 11 24 .314 4 453 295 249 174 90 73 22 1550   2 0 4 PHI
4 Carl Doyle 6.95 222.2 1935 1940 22-27 51 21 6 1 16 6 15 .286 2 277 195 172 155 101 63 18 1099   17 2 16 PHA-BRO-TOT
5 Mike Johnson 6.85 218.0 1997 2001 21-25 81 32 0 0 10 7 14 .333 2 254 169 166 103 147 67 47 1003 6 13 0 17 TOT-MON
6 Jack Knight 6.85 255.0 1922 1927 27-32 72 27 9 0 26 10 18 .357 5 382 231 194 89 49 66 28 1214   1 0 4 STL-PHI-BSN
7 Herman Besse 6.79 242.2 1940 1946 28-34 65 25 5 0 28 5 15 .250 2 298 195 183 128 118 58 24 1145   8 0 6 PHA
8 Greg Keagle 6.76 171.2 1996 1998 25-27 46 23 0 0 5 6 16 .273 0 208 135 129 106 128 72 27 829 5 18 0 5 DET
9 Jim Walkup 6.74 462.1 1934 1939 24-29 116 53 11 1 34 16 38 .296 0 614 381 346 260 134 72 49 2195   5 1 20 SLB-TOT
10 Randy Keisler 6.63 150.2 2000 2007 24-31 55 20 0 0 10 4 4 .500 0 174 121 111 84 100 67 32 702 3 2 1 2 NYY-SDP-CIN-OAK-STL
11 Ken Cloude 6.56 278.2 1997 1999 22-24 71 45 0 0 8 16 16 .500 1 334 215 203 152 195 72 47 1303 9 11 1 12 SEA
12 Andrew Lorraine 6.53 175.0 1994 2002 21-29 59 26 2 1 10 6 11 .353 0 218 138 127 83 113 70 31 814 4 2 1 4 CAL-CHW-OAK-SEA-CHC-TOT-MIL
13 Jeff Johnson 6.52 182.1 1991 1993 24-26 38 33 0 0 3 8 16 .333 0 239 143 132 58 76 63 20 829 1 8 1 6 NYY
14 Dan Bankhead 6.52 153.1 1947 1951 27-31 52 13 2 1 21 9 5 .643 4 161 116 111 110 111 63 22 706   3 2 3 BRO
15 Del Lundgren 6.51 184.0 1924 1927 24-27 56 20 5 2 17 5 15 .250 0 220 141 133 118 54 64 9 869   8 3 12 PIT-BOS
16 Chris George 6.48 237.1 2001 2004 21-24 47 44 1 0 1 14 20 .412 0 300 179 171 95 99 75 39 1085 3 4 5 9 KCR
17 Dick Welteroth 6.48 166.2 1948 1950 20-22 90 4 0 0 42 4 6 .400 3 185 131 120 145 55 67 12 804   2 0 7 WSH
18 Rene Monteagudo 6.42 168.1 1938 1945 22-29 46 11 5 0 22 3 7 .300 2 221 127 120 95 93 64 11 806   5 1 1 WSH-PHI
19 Heath Murray 6.41 158.2 1997 2002 24-29 88 15 0 0 14 2 15 .118 0 204 116 113 94 94 66 24 752 12 10 2 4 SDP-DET-CLE
20 Harry Smythe 6.40 154.2 1929 1934 24-29 60 12 2 0 29 5 12 .294 4 232 142 110 62 33 79 10 746   5 0 4 PHI-TOT
21 Elizardo Ramirez 6.40 160.1 2004 2008 21-25 39 26 0 0 7 4 15 .211 0 201 123 114 54 96 72 28 734 5 12 3 4 PHI-CIN-TEX
22 Matt Perisho 6.39 276.0 1997 2005 22-30 177 28 0 0 35 11 17 .393 0 346 221 196 162 202 73 42 1325 7 18 2 11 ANA-TEX-DET-FLA-TOT
23 Cotton Pippen 6.38 175.0 1936 1940 25-29 38 25 5 0 4 5 16 .238 1 253 144 124 64 55 73 22 842   4 0 6 STL-TOT-DET
24 Dewon Brazelton 6.38 271.0 2002 2006 22-26 63 43 0 0 5 8 25 .242 0 305 217 192 151 145 70 42 1256 7 20 1 9 TBD-SDP
25 Jack Crimian 6.36 160.0 1951 1957 25-31 74 7 0 0 25 5 9 .357 4 177 121 113 65 69 67 27 706 4 5 0 2 STL-KCA-DET
26 Oscar Fuhr 6.35 175.2 1921 1925 27-31 63 15 4 1 28 3 12 .200 0 249 163 124 69 59 70 9 837   8 1 3 CHC-BOS
27 John Koronka 6.25 158.1 2005 2009 24-28 31 30 0 0 1 8 13 .381 0 191 113 110 67 77 74 23 723 2 6 3 5 CHC-TEX-FLA
28 Al Williams 6.24 168.2 1937 1938 23-24 46 16 3 0 12 4 8 .333 1 216 144 117 103 52 76 6 805   2 1 7 PHA
29 Ryan Glynn 6.24 226.1 1999 2005 24-30 52 40 0 0 7 9 20 .310 0 280 174 157 117 116 79 41 1064 4 7 1 11 TEX-TOR-OAK
30 Greg Gohr 6.21 182.2 1993 1996 25-28 66 22 0 0 18 8 11 .421 1 234 131 126 82 131 80 35 854 5 5 1 10 DET-TOT
31 Bob Joyce 6.20 168.1 1939 1946 24-31 44 13 3 0 13 6 9 .400 0 235 134 116 57 49 68 16 792   1 0 4 PHA-NYG
32 Johnny Gray 6.18 169.0 1954 1958 26-30 48 24 6 1 8 4 18 .182 0 172 132 116 142 75 64 16 793 4 1 0 6 PHA-KCA-CLE-PHI
33 Clint Sodowsky 6.17 183.2 1995 1999 22-26 106 20 0 0 18 8 14 .364 0 214 138 126 117 118 73 21 876 12 12 3 14 DET-PIT-ARI-STL
34 Micah Bowie 6.16 156.1 1999 2008 24-33 88 19 0 0 15 8 13 .381 0 183 110 107 81 111 72 20 719 3 6 2 4 TOT-OAK-WSN-COL
35 Ruben Quevedo 6.15 326.1 2000 2003 21-24 66 58 2 1 1 14 30 .318 0 364 243 223 175 237 70 70 1501 12 7 0 9 CHC-MIL
36 George Turbeville 6.14 184.2 1935 1937 20-22 62 15 4 0 30 2 12 .143 0 196 144 126 157 47 77 10 875   6 1 21 PHA
37 Garrett Olson 6.14 287.1 2007 2011 23-27 103 44 0 0 17 14 22 .389 1 333 201 196 142 193 71 46 1323 4 14 1 14 BAL-SEA-PIT
38 Carlton Loewer 6.12 238.1 1998 2003 24-29 48 41 3 1 2 10 18 .357 0 302 169 162 76 118 74 32 1068 2 4 0 8 PHI-SDP
39 Sean Douglass 6.11 207.2 2001 2005 22-26 54 31 0 0 7 7 13 .350 0 222 149 141 113 155 72 34 936 8 8 1 8 BAL-TOR-DET
40 Les Sweetland 6.10 740.2 1927 1931 25-29 161 96 38 3 36 33 58 .363 4 992 570 502 358 159 77 68 3504   37 1 13 PHI-CHC
41 Jose Parra 6.09 181.2 1995 2004 22-31 82 19 0 0 18 7 12 .368 0 225 135 123 79 117 80 33 840 4 8 2 8 TOT-MIN-PIT-ARI-NYM
42 Vaughn Eshelman 6.07 212.0 1995 1997 26-28 83 30 0 0 11 15 9 .625 0 256 158 143 111 118 81 19 982 9 5 0 10 BOS
43 Lefty Mills 6.06 435.0 1934 1940 24-30 96 48 21 1 27 15 30 .333 2 453 325 293 302 267 81 40 2058   19 1 20 SLB
44 Dan Serafini 6.04 263.2 1996 2007 22-33 104 33 1 0 15 15 16 .484 1 335 191 177 118 127 76 37 1226 6 8 1 10 MIN-CHC-TOT-CIN-COL
45 Julio Bonetti 6.03 173.0 1937 1940 25-28 46 16 7 0 20 6 14 .300 1 234 127 116 77 50 80 14 805   2 0 6 SLB-CHC
46 Kevin Jarvis 6.03 780.2 1994 2006 24-36 187 118 4 3 22 34 49 .410 1 937 568 523 262 453 74 149 3492 23 23 0 21 CIN-TOT-OAK-COL-SDP-STL
47 Phil Huffman 6.03 177.2 1979 1985 21-27 33 32 2 1 0 6 18 .250 0 227 138 119 73 58 72 26 828 1 0 3 5 TOR-BAL
48 Dave Stevens 6.02 251.0 1994 2000 24-30 183 6 0 0 93 15 16 .484 21 298 174 168 132 170 80 49 1163 11 4 4 9 MIN-TOT-CHC-CLE-ATL
49 Jim Pittsley 6.02 225.2 1995 1999 21-25 81 29 0 0 16 7 12 .368 0 268 167 151 117 116 79 36 1038 2 10 0 13 KCR-TOT
50 Scott Aldred 6.02 499.2 1990 2000 22-32 229 67 1 0 29 20 39 .339 1 581 356 334 230 312 78 78 2267 20 19 2 30 DET-TOT-MIN-TBD-PHI
51 John Snyder 6.01 342.2 1998 2000 23-25 63 62 2 0 0 19 24 .442 0 410 247 229 149 188 78 49 1565 11 17 0 19 CHW-MIL
52 Don Wengert 6.01 438.2 1995 2001 25-31 160 48 2 1 45 14 32 .304 3 569 307 293 157 226 78 73 2001 13 18 0 8 OAK-TOT-KCR-ATL-PIT
53 Sean O'Sullivan 6.01 188.2 2009 2011 21-23 42 33 0 0 5 10 13 .435 0 219 133 126 73 90 69 36 845 4 4 2 6 LAA-TOT-KCR
54 Bunky Stewart 6.01 187.1 1952 1956 21-25 72 14 2 0 19 5 11 .313 3 215 147 125 127 77 67 19 898 5 10 1 4 WSH
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 6/22/2011.

#10 on the list, Randy Keisler, is still trying to get back to the show.

This entry was posted on Wednesday, June 22nd, 2011 at 9:56 am and is filed under Season Finders. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

56 Responses to “Career 150+ IP & ERA Over 6 Since 1901”

  1. Were any of these guys on post-season or World Series winning teams during their stretch?

  2. #46 Kevin Jarvis lasted the longest of anyone on this list. He pitched for 13 seasons from 1994 to 2006 for 11 different teams.

  3. I had to think for a second about why Keisler's name sounded familiar... and then I realized his name came up in the Anthony Rizzo career cycle post a few days ago, on the list of pitchers who homered in relief since 2000. I probably wouldn't have noticed him either, had he not gone 2-3 with a double and scored the go-ahead run in that same game. Small world.

  4. George, Pittsley, O'Sullivan

    Makes me so proud to be a Royals fan....

  5. John Autin Says:

    And yet, "on any given day"....

    -- Kevin Jarvis had 3 shutouts -- a 2-hitter, a 3-hitter, and another with 10 Ks and no walks.

    -- Del Lundgren threw 2 shutouts in 20 starts (both against Cleveland in 1927).

    -- Les Sweetland had 3 shutouts in 38 starts.

    -- Carl Doyle tossed a 3-hit shutout in his only start of 1939. Sure, it was against the Phillies, but still....

  6. Colby Lewis had to go to Japan to get off this list.

  7. @4 Kevin:

    Sodowsky, Serafini, Olson

    We Pirates fans are right there with you!

  8. Frank Clingenpeel Says:

    I figured that the percentage of Rockies on this list would be higher; at a galnce, I only found three -- and two of them did most of their pitching {and I am using that term loosely} for other outfits. Is this list adjusted for park factor or something?

  9. Interesting only 1 pitcher in all of the 60's,70's, and 80's

  10. Ruben Quevedo!!!!

  11. I expected way more former Orioles than 3. There might be 8 of them with career 5.99 ERA's or else they went somewhere else and pitched much better.

  12. Looks to be concentrated in 3 era's: the first big offensive explosion in the 20's & 30's, the second from 95 to 09 and a few from WWII. I was surprised at Myette getting so many chances despite being so phenomenally unsuccessful but his minor league numbers are generally pretty decent.

    I wish I had time to see how many of these guys were left handers- I would guess a disproportionate number are.

  13. Evil Squirrel Says:

    Aaron Myette's greatest contribution to Major League Baseball was getting ejected from this game in 2002, which led to what I believe is the longest official save ever:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BAL/BAL200209030.shtml

  14. I believe Ryan Vogelsong had an even 6.00 ERA before this season....Which makes his comeback even more remarkable.

  15. Remember Roy Halladay. After 3 seasons, 5.79 in 230 IP. Sent down, found it, yada yada yada.

  16. How about his teammate? Chris Carpenter. He had a 4.83 ERA after 870 innings, 6 years with TOR. Then he came to ST. Louis and has a 3.10 era after 1193 innings in 8 years.

  17. Amazing how forgettable their work was/is!

    I didn't even remember the two Toronto pitchers on the list, Ryan Glynn and Sean Douglass. I had to check their game logs to see what they actually did.

    Ryan Glynn was a September callup in 2005 and Sean Douglass was a long/middle reliever, mop-up man in 2004. The team actually went 2-10 in his appearances.

    I understand high offense and all but how bad could you be and still hold down a ML roster spot?

    I agree with Hartvig that a bad ERA is much more likely to be tolerated from a LH pitcher than a righty.

  18. Jared Detter Says:

    What's amazing to me is that the person with the highest all-time ERA for someone who pitched more than 150 innings was a first round draft pick. Hopefully they re-evaluated their scouting system.

  19. Jared Detter Says:

    @13, your post exposes what seems to be an issue with the game score system for starting pitchers. Myette got a game score of 49 for walking the only batter he faced on four pitches, while his starting counterpart got a game score of 38 for an outing that, though admittedly wasn't fantastic, wasn't so bad that I would consider it a bomb. He pitched 5 innings, allowing 6 hits and 4 runs. Something about that just doesn't seem right.

  20. Dukeofflatbush Says:

    Surprised not to see Todd Van Poppel pop the list. I recall him having a WHIP of 2.5 one year.

  21. Game score is a really pointless stat. Like we need something to tell us that Kerry Wood's 20K game was really good, or that having a start like Bumgarner did last night (1/3 IP, 8 ER) is really bad. Awesome, we couldn't have figured that out otherwise! Oh wait we already have WHIP and FIP nevermind...

  22. Mets Maven Says:

    I was surprised to find Don Bankhead on this list. First African-American pitcher in MLB. Apparently used as a pinch runner in the 1947 World Series, in answer to Comment #1.

  23. Should he once more appear in the majors, Keisler will have a chance to make history; he is joint first on the list of (the 3412) pitchers to have thrown at least 150 innings in the period here at issue by park- and league-adjusted scaled FIP (FIP-, that is) and almost certainly will disturb the tie should he pitch non-trivially. (Note that Roy Golden, with whom he is equal [at least after rounding], does not appear on the list supra; his career ERA was but 4.89, a mark that one finds unimpressive when he/she considers the run environment that prevailed in the two seasons in which he pitched; his ERA+, after all, was 67, worse than that of any other pitcher with as many innings pitched as he between 1910 and 1911, and joint 16th on the list of pitchers by worst career ERA+ [with the playing time and era qualifiers Steve employs here].)

    As must be any Brewers fan, I am delighted to see the Quevedo; even as he was well the worst (by every metric, it is fair to say) starter whom the Crew have had and so an on-field disaster, in his inability to run a mile in spring training in 2002 he created a legend that has lived in Wisconsin for years.

  24. John Autin Says:

    @13, Evil -- I love a 7-inning save as much as the next man, but that looks a heckuva lot like manipulation by the official scorer.

    The starter was ineligible for the win. The Rangers had a lead when the first reliever came in, and they never relinquished the lead. Therefore, the official scorer had to choose a winning pitcher from these two:
    -- Todd Van Poppel, 2 IP, 0 hits, 0 runs, 1 walk, 5 Ks; and
    -- Joaquin Benoit, 7 IP, 1 hit, 1 run, 0 walks, 4 Ks.

    Benoit pitched 6 hitless, scoreless innings before allowing a hit and a run in the 9th.

    Rule 10.17(b)(2) states:
    "... the official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher the relief pitcher, if there is only one relief pitcher, or the relief pitcher who, in the official scorer's judgment was the most effective."

    And Rule 10.17(b) Comment states:
    "If the first relief pitcher pitches effectively, the official scorer should not presumptively credit that pitcher with the win, because the rule requires that the win be credited to the pitcher who was the most effective, and a subsequent relief pitcher may have been most effective."

    Could any objective person look at the performances of those two pitchers and say that Van Poppel was more effective? -- or in a broader sense, more deserving of the win? The only reason I can think of for giving the win to Van Poppel was to also give a save to Benoit, perhaps even in a deliberate attempt to create a bizarre "record" for longest save.

  25. Does anyone know what is the longest save (in IP) in MLB history? Is there a way to search this in PI?

  26. Scott Aldred was the "King of Suck" of his time, although he didn't pitch near as many innings as I thought he did.

    I've been thinking about who the current "King of Suck" is, and I'm choosing someone who has a long career, lots of innings pitched, and has always been terrible. 1791.1 IP, 16 years in the majors, and a 1.570 WHIP and 85-120 lifetime record. And he's a righthander, for God's sake: Jamey Wright.

    Please show me a worse pitcher with that long a career and that many innings pitched in the last fifty years (forget Willie Blair: he didn't pitch enough innings).

  27. Amazing how so many of these guys are so recent. The explanation must be that because hitters are so much better than they used to be, A) starters can't go as many innings while remaining effective, meaning way more bullpen pitchers are required and B) the bullpen pitchers themselves must also be more effective to keep up with the hitters. This means you need way more quality arms than before, and this high demand and limited supply means that every so often you'll find a situation where a team just can't find any good arms, so they're forced to give a lot of innings to guys who just aren't good enough.

  28. John Autin Says:

    @25 -- Games are only searchable in the Play Index back through 1919. The longest save since 1919 was 8 IP:
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CLE/CLE196106182.shtml

    This was a legitimate save. The SP was knocked out in the 1st inning. The first reliever finished that inning. In the next half-inning, his team took a lead that they never relinquished; thus, by rule, he was credited with the win. The next reliever started the 2nd inning and finished the game.

    Whether this is the all-time record depends not only on whether a similar game occurred before 1919, but also whether we want to apply modern scoring rules retroactively. The save did not exist before 1919, and the rule that denied the win to a SP if he went less than 5 IP either did not exist or was not uniformly applied.

  29. John Autin Says:

    @26, Jeff -- Oliver Perez for K.O.S.
    His platform:
    -- Worst walk rate, by far, among active pitchers with 1,000+ IP.
    -- 4th worst in ERA+, WHIP and HR/9.
    -- Three years, thirty-six million.

  30. @29

    Yes, Perez sucks pretty bad. That is for sure. However, he needs seven more years in the majors and almost 700 more IP to catch up with Wright. And he even has a career WHIP of under 1.5, which Wright never will no matter how long he pitches.

    I think I'd be willing to go down to maybe 1500 IP and 13 years in the majors to find someone comparable to Wright. I'll have to do some more research.

    Note: Wright has a 95 ERA+ for his career. I can't explain that. I don't see how he can be that "good". I mean, I know he pitched for the Rockies for a few years, but he hasn't exactly been dominant with other teams.

  31. Jared Detter Says:

    Sorry to take the discussion away from pitching for the moment, but the discussion about Jamey Wright possibly being the worst pitcher to ever hang around the league for as long as he did got me thinking about the hitting counterpart to that. I'm wondering if anyone can top Dick Schofield. Somehow he managed to hang around for 19 years, while getting only 3083 at bats and hitting a measly .227. How he pulled that off, I'll never know. Any other candidates?

  32. @31
    A quick and lazy guess for Schofield is defense and getting media exposure playing for the Angels as a middle infielder.

    Another "modern" candidate? Mark Belanger? (without checking)

  33. Richard Chester Says:

    @31, @32

    Belanger played 18 years with a lofty .228 BA. Buck Martinez went 17 years with a .225 BA and a guy named George McBride went 16 years with a .218 BA. Lowest career BA with 2500 AB is Bill Bergen with 11 years and a .170 BA.

  34. @33
    Richard, darn, missed by one percentage point on the BA for Belanger. :-)

    Buck Martinez would have kept his job compared to Schofield and Belanger based on slugging, I think. But all three played premium defensive positions.

    Actually, come to think of it, maybe Schofield did have some pop in his bat. Time to actually check .......

  35. Sort this by year started, The six pitcher who did it after 1940 but before 1990 are the ones who really stand out. There were 17 before 1940 and 31 after 1990 (with more teams).

  36. @31-34 Rafael Belliard hit .221/.270/.259 in his 17 year career

  37. Dukeofflatbush Says:

    Jeff

    Introducing the new KOS - Bobby Witt - 16 years, 22nd all time in walks, while being 247th in IP.
    Also an ERA+ of 91 to go with a 1.56 WHIP.

    But there also is a Mr. Mike (12 team) Morgan. Who for no reason whatsoever played proball for 25 years.

  38. Dukeofflatbush Says:

    Also, 5 of the 12 teams Morgan played for did not exist when he was born.

  39. @36
    Jay, a proliferation of light-hitting shortstops in their time. Was Cal Ripken ws the first one to break the mold?

  40. Career SLG, Martinez 0.343, Schofield 0.308, Belanger 0.280. Now that last number is incredible.

    Perhaps only playing in a pitcher's era kept Mark Belanger on the Orioles' roster.

  41. @33, I think you've come up with a pretty good list. I think Bergen takes the cake, and I'm surprised I didn't think of him, as I actually have his tobacco card from 1911-ish. Besides Bergen, I think Buck Martinez is a good foil for Dick Schofield. Belanger has 8 gold gloves to his name, so he kind of makes sense, and McBride played in the dead ball era, which is kind of an excuse. So based on what we've put together so far, I think that Schofield and Martinez have been the most pointless, long-standing position players in the modern era, at least from a statistical standpoint.

    @36, I just reread your post, and Belliard joins this select club as well, in my opinion. If he'd have played longer, I'd put Steve Jeltz in the argument.

  42. Johnny Twisto Says:

    a proliferation of light-hitting shortstops in their time. Was Cal Ripken ws the first one to break the mold?

    Of course there were good hitting SS before this. But as for breaking the mold of the light hitting turf SS of the '60s and '70s, Robin Yount bloomed before Ripken. He had an OPS+ of 130 in 1980. The *only* season of at least 130 by a '70s SS was Toby Harrah in '76 (145), and I think he was barely a SS (he moved to 3B the following season).

  43. @42
    Johnny, isn't Yount's 1982 season a better example of your point? OPS+ of 166 compared to Ripken's.

    Perhaps because Robin moved to the outfield for a significant portion of his career I tend to view Cal Ripken as the first of a new generation of offensive shortstop.

  44. Dukeofflatbush Says:

    @ Neil & Jared,

    I think you guys overlooked one of my favorites, Alfredo Griffin:
    18 seasons & almost 2,000 games, all for a 67 OPS+ & a career −2.4 WAR.
    He had only a 58% SB success rate.
    In 1984, he had a hysterical 14 XBH & 4 BB in 140 games for a 48 OPS+.
    4 walks in over 400 PA, all that and he was an allstar. Go figure.
    he also managed to grab three rings along the way.

  45. Johnny Twisto Says:

    Neil/43, yes, I was just referring to the first season it looks like Yount really broke out and became ROBIN YOUNT.

  46. @44
    Duke, Alfredo's career BA is too high.

    I think his 1984 all-star appearance was due to there having to be one player from each team.

    As for the few walks, Griffin was just one of a host of Dominican middle infielders who obeyed the old saw about getting off the island.

    Remember Juan Samuel?

  47. Dukeofflatbush Says:

    JT,
    ... when he was just 'boy-wonder'?

  48. Dukeofflatbush Says:

    Neil L.

    I don't know how old you are, but Samuel was thought of as a superstar in the making. In his first 4 full seasons, he averaged 20 HRs, 15 3Bs, 35 2Bs & 50 SBs.
    But no one in baseball history has had 20 HRs, 15 3Bs, 35 2Bs & 50 SBs in a season, Samuel averaged that his first 4.
    He had 70 something steals his rookie year, I think the record until Coleman a year or two later. But the sky was the limit.
    Then the Mets got him.
    A great comedy, would be alternating archive footage of the Mets trying to play HoJo in center, Piazza at first, Samuel in right, Reyes at second (Matsui's reign) Greg Jefferies in left, Mackey Sasser at first and Todd Hundley in left.
    Oh those darn Mets, ya gotta love how they try (& fail).

  49. Johnny Twisto Says:

    But no one in baseball history has had 20 HRs, 15 3Bs, 35 2Bs & 50 SBs in a season, Samuel averaged that his first 4.

    Obviously he belongs in the HOF. Along with Johnny Damon.

  50. @46.

    Neil,

    Alfredo Griffin's 1984 all-star appearance was reported in this blog some time ago, but worth retelling.

    The Blue Jays rep at that All-Star game was Damaso Garcia. Like all players at the game, he was provided an expenses-paid trip to the game for a companion. Not having a wife (or, apparently, a girlfriend), Garcia brought Griffin, reportedly his best buddy on the team.

    During the pre-game warmups, AL shortstop Allan Trammell somehow injured himself and couldn't go. Whereupon, Garcia volunteered that Griffin was in the ballpark. And, that's how he ended up in the game. Griffin relieved Cal Ripken and played the last 3 innings in the field for the losing AL squad. Don Mattingly pinch-hit for him in the 9th.

    Can't tell you if it's a true story, but it at least sounds plausible. Certainly can't imagine how Griffin would have been picked for the game based on his play - he was a 48 OPS+ in 1984.

  51. Dukeofflatbush Says:

    JT,
    Just saying, an auspicious start for a guy who turned out pretty bad.

  52. Dukeofflatbush Says:

    @ 50

    Remember the story. You got it right from what I remember, but it still baffles me that Ripken, Yount, Trammell, Julio Franco and Spike Owen all qualified as shortstops that year.

    A pop quiz (no cheating) one of the above mentioned players, has the longest period between first at bat and last at bat with the same pitcher, who is one of the greats.
    Any guesses.
    A hint.
    It was 25 years apart from their first showdown to their last, and I think the last was interleague,

  53. @52.

    It was Julio Franco and Roger Clemens.

    I don't think it could be longer than 23 years, because that's how long Clemens was around.

  54. Dukeofflatbush Says:

    Yeah, but HGH expanded that 23years to look longer.
    good catch though.
    Amazing.

  55. These are the games, 23 years and 31 days apart. The first game was Clemens MLB debut.

    First: http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CLE/CLE198405150.shtml
    Last: http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYA/NYA200706150.shtml

    Franco grounded out to second in both his very first and vary last at-bats against the Rocket.

  56. @48
    Duke, my post at @46 was not meant as a slight to Juan Samuel. I am old enough to remember his potential well.

    As I recall, for pure athleticism, Samuel stood out at his time. I simply meant one should not be surprised by low walk totals from Dominican players, like Griffin, Samuel, Mariano Duncan, etc.