Comments on: Phillies still chucking shutouts http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/11190 This and that about baseball stats. Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:01:55 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: Gerry http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/11190/comment-page-1#comment-115023 Mon, 23 May 2011 23:58:54 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=11190#comment-115023 @#24, HoFer Red Ruffing was 10-25 in 1928, then 9-22 the next year. He wasn't all that bad - in 1928, his ERA was better than league average - he was just stuck on some lousy Red Sox teams.

HoFer Jim Bunning went 4-14 in 1968 with a 75 ERA+, then finished his career in 1971 going 5-12 with an ERA+ of 65.

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By: Neil L. http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/11190/comment-page-1#comment-115006 Mon, 23 May 2011 23:03:07 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=11190#comment-115006 @29
Touche, JA!

Great point about the Vernon Wells contract.

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By: John Autin http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/11190/comment-page-1#comment-114998 Mon, 23 May 2011 22:00:57 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=11190#comment-114998 Neil, I certainly sympathize with your sense of loss when the Blue Jays dealt Halladay.

But were they really forced to trade him? -- and if so, was it because of some inherent unfairness in the industry's financial structure, or was it more due to their own mistakes such as the Vernon Wells contract?

And while I'm not predicting a sudden decline for the Doc, it's by no means certain that Philly will get their money's worth from the massive extension they gave him.

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By: Neil L. http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/11190/comment-page-1#comment-114950 Mon, 23 May 2011 18:45:48 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=11190#comment-114950 @10
"but -- what's this business about "buying" the best rotation?
Cliff Lee is the only one they signed as a free agent. They developed Hamels, and traded for Halladay, Oswalt and Blanton. "

JA, you're right -- technically. In analyzing my feelings when posting @5, although the Halladay deal was a "trade" in name and the small-market team got Kyle Drabek in return (the ML leader in walks as we speak!), it really was a case of talent flowing from the poorer to the richer. His former team wasn't going to be able to afford his services the next year anyway.

Not to replay all the tapes from other blogs, but, IMO, deals like the Halladay one are somewhat forced on the smaller franchise. Although Alex Anthopolous may have been listenening to a few Halladay suitors, none of them were likely from small-market franchises.

Ergo, the deal for Halladay was not made in the best competitive interests of both clubs.

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By: Doug http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/11190/comment-page-1#comment-114931 Mon, 23 May 2011 16:53:23 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=11190#comment-114931 @25 Dennis Eckersley's nadir season was 1983.

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By: Doug http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/11190/comment-page-1#comment-114929 Mon, 23 May 2011 16:51:22 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=11190#comment-114929 I found 21 HOFers with seasons since 1901 where they started 60% of their games, had 100+ IP and an ERA+ <= 80.

Leaving aside seasons very near the beginning or end of careers, these stood out for me. Take your pick for the very worst, but I'll go with Early Wynn and his almost 2 to 1 BB to SO ratio.

Early Wynn, 1948, age 28, 8-19, 5.82 ERA, 74 ERA+, 1.67 WHIP, 0.52 SO/BB, got traded in off-season
Bob Feller, 1952, age 33, 9-13, 4.74 ERA, 71 ERA+, 1.58 WHIP, 0.98 SO/BB
Robin Roberts, 1961, age 34, 1-10, 5.85 ERA, 70 ERA+, 1.51 WHIP, 2.35 SO/BB, sold in off-season
Dennis Eckersley, age 28, 9-13, 5.61 ERA, 78 ERA+, 1.49 WHIP, 1.97 SO/BB, got traded early next year

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By: Dave http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/11190/comment-page-1#comment-114922 Mon, 23 May 2011 15:34:32 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=11190#comment-114922 @#8
Are there any other HoF pitchers that had a bad season like Carlton's 1973? 13-20 with a 3.90 ERA.

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By: Timmy Patrick http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/11190/comment-page-1#comment-114920 Mon, 23 May 2011 15:29:19 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=11190#comment-114920 @21 Well that incident in Chicago happened at Sox Park. Cubs fans are rowdy but in a healthy way. Basically New Yorkers and Philadelphians are animals and it's not safe to go to a game in either city. The area around Dodgers Stadium is bad, and the culture of the Dodger fan is slightly below that of a male chimp.

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By: The Morning Line, 5/23 | Paul Daugherty http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/11190/comment-page-1#comment-114902 Mon, 23 May 2011 13:59:29 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=11190#comment-114902 [...] The Phillies have allowed the fewest runs in the major leagues behind a rotation that leads the majors in complete games, strikeouts and fewest walks allowed. The staff has combined for seven shutouts, a pace of 25 — that would be the most since the 1969 Mets recorded 28. [...]

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By: David http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/11190/comment-page-1#comment-114886 Mon, 23 May 2011 12:28:40 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=11190#comment-114886 @timmy - Except it DIDN'T happen in NY or Philly but it DID happen in L.A.!
(Of course you didn't mention Chicago where the two "fans" attacked on on-field coach.)
Also Google how Phillies fans were attacked by gang-banging sum during the 2009 & 2010 playoffs.

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