Comments on: Vin Mazzaro and giving up 14 earned runs http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/11127 This and that about baseball stats. Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:01:55 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: John Autin http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/11127/comment-page-1#comment-113929 Thu, 19 May 2011 03:59:17 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=11127#comment-113929 @42, Neil -- I did not mean to be hard on anyone. I do tend to get argumentative.

Yes, I saw the video replay of Mazzaro's 10-run inning; I think ESPN showed the outcome of every AB once the carnage started.

I do feel for Mazzaro, and it sure took some composure and manhood to tough it out.

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By: Neil L. http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/11127/comment-page-1#comment-113792 Wed, 18 May 2011 19:21:50 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=11127#comment-113792 @35
John, don't be too hard on Doug. I was the one who first inferred mis-use by Ned Yost in post 30.

Your account of Mazzero's 4th and 5th innings makes it seems as if he was at least partly a victim of bloops, bleeders and defensive gaffes. In the gamelog I can only see two weakly hit balls. How did you get the extra context of the batted balls off Mazzero? Video highlights?

He got no help anywhere, from the official scorer, his defense, his reliever in the fifth inning...... And after the home run, the horse was out of the barn in that inning so no point yanking him then.

Two of the ER were his inherited runners scoring in the fifth. Looking over the outing I conclude it was not as if he was being left out there to be embarrased by absorbing punishment.

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By: MichaelPat http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/11127/comment-page-1#comment-113789 Wed, 18 May 2011 19:13:12 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=11127#comment-113789 @ 31
P.S. Luzinski is credited with 0.2 and 0.1 dWAR in 1981-82, but he played exclusively DH those years with the White Sox. Does that make sense to anyone?

Absolutely no sense at all, no. Having Luzinski mash for you without ever having to put on a fielder's glove should be worth 2.0 to 3.0 wins above replacement, easy.

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By: Jeff http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/11127/comment-page-1#comment-113782 Wed, 18 May 2011 18:50:28 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=11127#comment-113782 @33

My personal favorite Bermanism was José "Won't You Let Me Take You On A Sea" Cruz.

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By: Andy http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/11127/comment-page-1#comment-113767 Wed, 18 May 2011 17:36:27 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=11127#comment-113767 Yost does not deserve criticism for this move. It was early in the game and he'd already gone through 2 pitchers. If Mazzaro doesn't get through at least a couple of innings, Yost is faced with blowing through his entire bullpen and maybe at least 1 other starting pitcher. The Royals could have been hurt for the next several games.
As it is, it didn't work out so well because Mazzaro didn't go all that long. But if Mazzaro could have finished out the game and allowed 6 or 7 runs, we'd be calling him a hero. (At least I would.)

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By: John Autin http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/11127/comment-page-1#comment-113750 Wed, 18 May 2011 17:05:51 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=11127#comment-113750 In the past 10 years alone, there were 40 other games in which a pitcher allowed at least 11 runs. Should all those managers be criticized for hanging their pitcher out to dry? Consider just a couple of those games:

-- July 10, 2010, starter Scott Kazmir allows 13 runs over 5 innings in a 15-1 blowout. Kazmir allows 8 runs in the 3rd. With 2 out and a man on in the 5th, Kazmir allows an RBI double (9-0), a single, a 3-run HR (12-0), and another HR (13-0). Mike Scioscia still leaves him in to finish the inning.

-- August 6, 2008, starter Brandon Backe takes a 4-1 lead into the bottom of the 3rd. With 2 out and a man on, he allows walk, walk, grand slam, double, intentional walk (to face the pitcher), double (by the pitcher), 3-run HR. That's 8 runs, making the score 9-4. Cecil Cooper not only had Backe finish the inning, but sent him out for the 4th, which went like this: walk, single, out, walk, single (and finally Backe was lifted).

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By: nightfly http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/11127/comment-page-1#comment-113745 Wed, 18 May 2011 16:48:07 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=11127#comment-113745 OK... you might enjoy THIS small essay about the game, whose link apparently went down the rabbit hole.

You guys gotta get a preview button!

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By: nightfly http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/11127/comment-page-1#comment-113744 Wed, 18 May 2011 16:47:11 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=11127#comment-113744 Al Travers really deserves an asterisk, because as Furman Bisher reminds us in his collection of essays on baseball oddities, that was "The Day the Tigers Struck." Ty Cobb had been suspended, and the Tigers refused to play until the suspension was lifted. Ban Johnson (IIRC) retaliated by threatening to forfeit all Detroit's games until they returned to the field.

In desperation, the Tigers were forced to field a team of scrubs and replacements for their game against the A's, and Travers, a Roman Catholic seminarian, took the hill for the faux-Tigers. A couple of their coaches were pressed into service, they scrounged up some sandlotters, and proceeded to be trounced handily.

You might enjoy this small essay about the game, which also fills in a few of the blanks on the other players and some of the surrounding carnival atmosphere of early major league baseball.

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By: John Autin http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/11127/comment-page-1#comment-113742 Wed, 18 May 2011 16:39:07 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=11127#comment-113742 @32, Doug -- The SP, Kyle Davies, left with an injury during the 1st inning. So Yost called in a reliever, Nate Adcock, someone who's used to warming up in a hurry. I presume that Yost also had Mazzaro (a starting pitcher) start warming up at the same time.

Adcock faced 9 batters, which is a longer-than-average stint for today's relievers. So then Mazzaro came in, and retired the side in order in the 3rd. Cleveland already led, 3-0.

In the 4th, Mazzaro allowed a 1-out run on a bloop single. Then, with 2 out and the bases loaded, Hafner drove a ball into left-center. Melky Cabrera got a bad jump and stumbled going after it; I think he catches that ball more often than not. Anyway, 3 runs scored, and now it's 7-0.

What should Yost do? It's still just the 4th inning. Mazzaro isn't pitching brilliantly, but he's hardly getting pounded. Should he run through the rest of his bullpen, in a game that they have very little chance of winning?

I think Yost made reasonable choices. It so happens that the wheels came off: Another soft hit to RF scored a run. A grounder to SS should have been the 3rd out (again), but he double-clutched and threw late; the official scorer gifted a single. A loud double scores 2 more, making it 10-0. But if Yost didn't take out Mazzaro at 7-0, why should he take him out now?

The score did get ugly, and certainly Mazzaro gave up a good number of hard hits. But in the end, he only threw 77 pitches total. Where, exactly, is the abuse?

Mazzaro is not a rookie. He has over 200 innings in the big leagues. It's just one game, early in the season. He didn't set any all-time records for runs or hits allowed. This game will be remembered for a while, but not for all time. I don't know how Mazzaro felt about it. But as long as it didn't present any danger to his physical health, I don't see why Yost should be criticized.

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By: Mets Maven http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/11127/comment-page-1#comment-113739 Wed, 18 May 2011 16:31:03 +0000 http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/?p=11127#comment-113739 @1
Eddie Rommel faced 87 batters in that game. He recorded 9 walks and 7 strikeouts. Does anybody know if that's the record for batters faced in one game? Also, Johnny Burnett went 9 for 11. Is that the record for hits in a game?

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