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Duke Snider, Passes At 84

Posted by Steve Lombardi on February 27, 2011

Click here for the details.

If I did this right, he's on the list of players since 1920 to hit 220+ homeruns at home. See:

Rk Player #Matching   PA AB H 2B 3B HR 6 RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SH SF IBB HBP GDP
1 Hank Aaron 350 Ind. Games 1517 1345 612 41 4 385 722 155 114 .455 .510 1.350 1.860 0 11 35 6 12
2 Barry Bonds 347 Ind. Games 1491 1189 584 51 9 379 661 281 140 .491 .588 1.505 2.093 0 10 73 11 20
3 Babe Ruth 300 Ind. Games 1333 1076 549 43 14 336 665 246 117 .510 .602 1.513 2.115 10 0   1 0
4 Willie Mays 305 Ind. Games 1321 1181 556 42 8 335 585 129 101 .471 .522 1.371 1.892 2 6 16 3 16
5 Ken Griffey 303 Ind. Games 1347 1162 529 56 2 332 621 159 152 .455 .521 1.364 1.885 1 12 28 13 13
6 Jim Thome 299 Ind. Games 1289 1075 502 57 4 329 612 203 257 .467 .550 1.446 1.996 0 7 34 4 8
7 Mel Ott 291 Ind. Games 1270 1061 500 31 5 323 618 204 75 .471 .558 1.423 1.981 2 0   3 3
8 Frank Robinson 286 Ind. Games 1238 1073 520 44 6 321 594 137 110 .485 .547 1.434 1.981 3 7 22 18 17
9 Sammy Sosa 284 Ind. Games 1256 1126 531 46 7 321 605 121 214 .472 .520 1.380 1.900 0 8 24 1 20
10 Alex Rodriguez 287 Ind. Games 1309 1153 539 42 3 315 608 125 192 .467 .522 1.329 1.851 2 11 8 18 27
11 Frank Thomas 287 Ind. Games 1274 1068 482 42 3 312 569 179 145 .451 .530 1.373 1.902 0 13 17 14 18
12 Rafael Palmeiro 289 Ind. Games 1272 1103 495 43 6 311 557 155 116 .449 .514 1.345 1.858 1 10 23 3 26
13 Jimmie Foxx 263 Ind. Games 1167 981 491 45 10 299 635 181 112 .501 .579 1.481 2.060 4 0   1 3
14 Harmon Killebrew 265 Ind. Games 1116 943 424 20 1 291 553 163 141 .450 .530 1.399 1.928 0 6 18 4 17
15 Ernie Banks 260 Ind. Games 1117 1027 469 31 7 290 570 77 94 .457 .494 1.348 1.842 0 7 21 6 22
16 Mark McGwire 254 Ind. Games 1106 899 398 25 1 285 518 191 172 .443 .542 1.424 1.965 0 6 40 10 18
17 Manny Ramirez 253 Ind. Games 1093 932 467 55 2 282 596 142 159 .501 .566 1.472 2.038 1 9 32 9 20
18 Reggie Jackson 257 Ind. Games 1093 965 427 30 1 280 529 116 187 .442 .504 1.346 1.850 2 3 10 7 12
19 Mickey Mantle 244 Ind. Games 1050 895 427 21 7 266 468 151 141 .477 .552 1.408 1.960 0 2 16 2 13
20 Mike Schmidt 245 Ind. Games 1037 875 399 39 3 265 517 143 137 .456 .532 1.416 1.948 1 9 18 9 13
21 Willie McCovey 241 Ind. Games 984 843 386 23 2 264 493 129 128 .458 .529 1.429 1.959 0 6 29 6 9
22 Gary Sheffield 247 Ind. Games 1080 922 441 40 1 262 492 144 92 .478 .550 1.376 1.926 1 5 16 8 15
23 Stan Musial 234 Ind. Games 1050 909 459 44 12 252 489 127 40 .505 .563 1.411 1.975 1 8 20 5 18
24 Lou Gehrig 229 Ind. Games 1046 887 452 42 17 251 533 151 58 .510 .582 1.444 2.026 5 0   3  
25 Ted Williams 233 Ind. Games 1057 843 428 46 6 248 532 207 61 .508 .606 1.459 2.066 0 1 16 6 13
26 Billy Williams 225 Ind. Games 992 881 450 48 11 245 468 95 52 .511 .555 1.425 1.980 0 10 16 6 8
27 Eddie Murray 232 Ind. Games 999 889 404 22 1 242 475 101 95 .454 .506 1.298 1.804 1 8 13 0 21
28 Carlos Delgado 221 Ind. Games 960 822 364 37 1 242 459 113 155 .443 .517 1.373 1.890 0 6 20 19 16
29 Fred McGriff 221 Ind. Games 949 818 377 27 3 241 429 124 131 .461 .530 1.385 1.915 0 5 16 2 12
30 Eddie Mathews 214 Ind. Games 925 795 356 16 3 238 423 119 102 .448 .516 1.374 1.890 3 7 13 1 6
31 Carl Yastrzemski 219 Ind. Games 955 820 408 36 4 237 476 119 70 .498 .559 1.418 1.977 1 9 21 6 20
32 Chipper Jones 216 Ind. Games 953 823 399 35 8 237 439 121 96 .485 .548 1.411 1.958 0 7 18 2 14
33 Jeff Bagwell 217 Ind. Games 962 803 381 42 2 234 454 140 134 .474 .556 1.406 1.962 0 5 17 14 14
34 Vladimir Guerrero 207 Ind. Games 905 813 396 41 2 229 442 77 71 .487 .531 1.387 1.919 0 7 29 8 24
35 Al Kaline 214 Ind. Games 925 811 377 33 3 226 409 103 63 .465 .524 1.349 1.873 1 6 18 4 13
36 Duke Snider 196 Ind. Games 843 731 354 32 7 224 408 101 82 .484 .547 1.466 2.014 4 3 17 4 10
37 Willie Stargell 207 Ind. Games 886 776 375 40 10 221 449 94 137 .483 .536 1.415 1.951 0 10 23 6 12
38 Darrell Evans 205 Ind. Games 870 751 321 12 2 219 375 109 98 .427 .498 1.324 1.822 1 6 9 3 8
39 Jose Canseco 197 Ind. Games 885 783 343 34 1 219 410 87 142 .438 .493 1.323 1.816 0 9 8 6 10
40 Dave Winfield 207 Ind. Games 909 804 373 22 4 218 432 93 94 .464 .518 1.315 1.832 3 6 19 3 24
41 Paul Konerko 200 Ind. Games 852 739 363 33 0 218 398 96 91 .491 .550 1.421 1.971 0 7 10 10 17
42 Dave Kingman 205 Ind. Games 858 780 308 18 3 217 407 62 161 .395 .439 1.260 1.699 3 8 7 5 17
43 Dale Murphy 201 Ind. Games 858 757 352 27 2 217 419 91 107 .465 .521 1.366 1.887 0 6 11 4 20
44 Graig Nettles 200 Ind. Games 830 747 338 26 2 216 389 72 65 .452 .502 1.360 1.863 0 4 9 7 12
45 Ron Santo 196 Ind. Games 840 739 348 29 2 216 411 93 88 .471 .527 1.392 1.919 1 6 13 1 11
46 Larry Walker 198 Ind. Games 877 769 372 39 5 215 393 80 101 .484 .538 1.386 1.924 1 8 13 19 10
47 Cal Ripken 205 Ind. Games 905 821 358 34 1 214 407 69 80 .436 .480 1.262 1.741 0 8 9 7 12
48 Norm Cash 197 Ind. Games 806 707 320 12 2 214 382 85 89 .453 .514 1.383 1.898 3 3 15 8 8
49 Joe Carter 195 Ind. Games 851 778 356 39 5 213 419 53 83 .458 .489 1.342 1.831 2 12 12 6 10
50 Johnny Mize 193 Ind. Games 812 716 357 28 6 212 415 89 51 .499 .557 1.443 2.000 2 0 0 5 8
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 2/27/2011.

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But, he's not on the list of those to do it on the road:

Rk Player #Matching   PA AB H 2B 3B HR 6 RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SH SF IBB HBP GDP
1 Barry Bonds 340 Ind. Games 1571 1263 607 61 8 383 683 293 149 .481 .577 1.451 2.029 0 8 76 7 21
2 Hank Aaron 342 Ind. Games 1589 1426 644 61 8 370 703 146 125 .452 .499 1.284 1.783 1 14 32 2 36
3 Babe Ruth 294 Ind. Games 1428 1134 566 65 17 329 665 273 132 .499 .597 1.457 2.054 18 0   3 0
4 Willie Mays 288 Ind. Games 1336 1181 551 40 8 325 576 138 114 .467 .521 1.340 1.861 0 10 20 7 21
5 Ken Griffey 270 Ind. Games 1247 1101 479 45 2 298 563 130 157 .435 .496 1.292 1.788 1 6 38 9 20
6 Alex Rodriguez 264 Ind. Games 1266 1091 513 46 4 298 566 150 178 .470 .535 1.339 1.874 0 11 23 14 15
7 Mark McGwire 257 Ind. Games 1149 975 432 34 1 298 531 165 188 .443 .523 1.397 1.920 0 5 24 4 11
8 Sammy Sosa 250 Ind. Games 1137 1016 451 38 3 288 534 109 212 .444 .499 1.338 1.836 2 4 17 6 16
9 Reggie Jackson 262 Ind. Games 1168 1032 459 56 6 283 520 119 195 .445 .505 1.333 1.838 1 5 14 11 18
10 Mike Schmidt 255 Ind. Games 1170 1011 440 41 9 283 503 146 162 .435 .506 1.333 1.839 0 7 31 6 19
11 Harmon Killebrew 261 Ind. Games 1160 984 419 21 0 282 507 160 164 .426 .508 1.307 1.815 0 6 14 10 36
12 Eddie Mathews 248 Ind. Games 1155 989 438 35 10 274 505 158 133 .443 .517 1.330 1.847 1 6 18 1 11
13 Ted Williams 248 Ind. Games 1146 912 450 31 6 273 539 230 62 .493 .595 1.439 2.034 0 2 20 2 22
14 Manny Ramirez 246 Ind. Games 1132 981 469 53 3 273 538 128 170 .478 .534 1.373 1.908 0 15 12 8 18
15 Mickey Mantle 245 Ind. Games 1104 934 435 37 4 270 498 165 146 .466 .545 1.381 1.926 1 3 15 1 12
16 Frank Robinson 245 Ind. Games 1128 981 449 37 10 265 484 117 126 .458 .517 1.326 1.843 2 12 20 16 22
17 Eddie Murray 238 Ind. Games 1094 986 441 40 2 262 496 104 103 .447 .500 1.289 1.789 0 2 20 2 16
18 Jim Thome 242 Ind. Games 1080 912 411 45 1 260 448 161 234 .451 .533 1.357 1.891 0 3 17 4 11
19 Rafael Palmeiro 246 Ind. Games 1117 989 441 37 3 258 485 108 115 .446 .501 1.272 1.773 0 9 8 11 14
20 Willie McCovey 233 Ind. Games 1003 866 392 25 2 257 473 123 119 .453 .521 1.376 1.898 0 6 38 8 13
21 Willie Stargell 228 Ind. Games 1008 898 416 39 3 254 488 95 178 .463 .516 1.362 1.878 0 6 22 9 12
22 Fred McGriff 232 Ind. Games 1024 916 417 37 3 252 465 103 157 .455 .511 1.328 1.838 0 2 19 3 13
23 Dave Winfield 227 Ind. Games 1059 974 444 38 3 247 470 79 121 .456 .498 1.262 1.759 0 2 21 4 16
24 Gary Sheffield 224 Ind. Games 1045 880 416 37 3 247 493 142 78 .473 .543 1.364 1.906 2 13 19 8 16
25 Jose Canseco 227 Ind. Games 1067 962 397 38 3 243 470 85 193 .413 .462 1.216 1.678 0 9 11 11 14
26 Lou Gehrig 216 Ind. Games 1034 874 450 58 15 242 550 147 55 .515 .586 1.446 2.033 9 0   4  
27 Juan Gonzalez 213 Ind. Games 976 915 397 46 2 237 491 50 143 .434 .461 1.266 1.727 0 8 12 3 20
28 Jimmie Foxx 214 Ind. Games 1007 851 417 44 11 235 491 148 101 .490 .566 1.396 1.962 8 0   0 6
29 Mike Piazza 204 Ind. Games 918 834 401 41 0 232 449 80 107 .481 .525 1.365 1.890 0 3 19 1 19
30 Andre Dawson 206 Ind. Games 930 881 396 27 3 231 430 31 99 .449 .469 1.274 1.743 1 8 11 9 14
31 Carlos Delgado 197 Ind. Games 918 791 370 38 5 231 450 97 140 .468 .528 1.405 1.933 0 12 20 18 10
32 Dave Kingman 189 Ind. Games 827 756 321 25 4 225 417 63 153 .425 .469 1.361 1.830 1 4 7 3 14
33 Stan Musial 202 Ind. Games 949 838 409 40 5 223 427 105 43 .488 .546 1.346 1.892 0 2 12 4 16
34 Ernie Banks 206 Ind. Games 933 848 366 28 7 222 423 65 72 .432 .472 1.267 1.738 2 10 23 8 20
35 Albert Pujols 195 Ind. Games 903 789 376 38 2 220 396 101 79 .477 .537 1.366 1.903 0 5 36 8 26
36 Andruw Jones 189 Ind. Games 858 777 335 30 7 218 389 67 128 .431 .477 1.329 1.806 0 7 6 7 16
37 Cal Ripken 204 Ind. Games 933 856 391 39 3 217 411 67 67 .457 .495 1.270 1.764 1 6 5 3 18
38 Carl Yastrzemski 205 Ind. Games 931 821 376 29 3 215 390 106 76 .458 .519 1.286 1.806 1 2 10 1 17
39 Jeff Bagwell 198 Ind. Games 938 782 369 43 2 215 427 131 112 .472 .546 1.357 1.903 1 12 11 12 15
40 Joe DiMaggio 187 Ind. Games 894 803 382 38 9 213 444 82 33 .476 .528 1.341 1.869 2 0 1 7 10
41 Frank Thomas 199 Ind. Games 930 785 374 41 0 209 420 127 110 .476 .543 1.327 1.870 0 14 17 3 14
42 Jason Giambi 193 Ind. Games 878 753 340 39 0 208 409 100 121 .452 .519 1.332 1.851 1 9 7 15 14
43 Vladimir Guerrero 187 Ind. Games 845 768 373 30 3 207 369 63 81 .486 .527 1.341 1.868 0 5 24 9 17
44 Jeff Kent 193 Ind. Games 883 814 357 55 5 203 402 59 117 .439 .476 1.267 1.743 1 5 7 4 15
45 Harold Baines 189 Ind. Games 823 745 357 24 3 199 375 67 78 .479 .519 1.321 1.840 1 7 14 3 12
46 Luis Gonzalez 181 Ind. Games 824 738 344 49 5 199 382 74 75 .466 .516 1.355 1.871 0 5 13 7 18
47 Chipper Jones 180 Ind. Games 838 731 359 44 4 199 372 101 93 .491 .550 1.379 1.929 0 5 13 1 8
48 Joe Adcock 179 Ind. Games 734 660 307 25 2 199 354 65 88 .465 .510 1.414 1.924 1 6 9 2 24
49 Tony Perez 186 Ind. Games 831 760 353 30 2 197 377 63 101 .464 .502 1.287 1.789 0 7 9 1 22
50 Andres Galarraga 182 Ind. Games 798 733 318 23 4 197 370 48 148 .434 .475 1.282 1.757 0 4 11 13 16
51 Orlando Cepeda 179 Ind. Games 800 741 351 42 5 197 382 50 85 .474 .504 1.341 1.845 0 7 14 2 19
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 2/27/2011.

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This entry was posted on Sunday, February 27th, 2011 at 5:03 pm and is filed under Game Finders. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

30 Responses to “Duke Snider, Passes At 84”

  1. I'll miss him -- he was the radio broadcaster for the Expos when I was a kid growing up in Montreal.

    It still astonishes me that, of the center fielders for New York teams in the early 1950s, he was the third best. I wonder what kind of player you'd get if you combined the worst season of the three each year for each player. I bet Mickey "Duke" Mays would still make the Hall of Fame.

    (In fact, I'm off to play that game right now in memoriam)

  2. larry seltzer Says:

    Do you have a sortable ranking for HR at home % with a minimum, maybe 100 or 200 HR?

  3. OK, that's funny. Good as Snider was, his is the worst season of the three for all the years that they were in the league together (1951-64) except for '51 (when it was Mantle) and '52-'53, and '56 (when it was Mays -- he was in the Army the middle of the three).

    Because their careers don't quite overlap, 'Mickey "Duke" Mays' only plays for 14 years (thirteen, actually, because of the Korean War) and isn't a HOFer, but he's a fine player: .288/.380/.537, with 266 HR. He was definitely hurt by playing in LA and the 60s the back part of his career, plus he got injured quite a lot later on.

  4. Snider's 2nd half of Snider's career ended oddly in that from 1958-1964 he was essentially a part-time player. He only had two seasons with more than 400+ plate appearances in those 7 seasons.

    There's not many pictures available but it's also odd to see Snider as a member of the 1964 SF Giants.

  5. 224/183 is a fairly favorable split, but its not too crazy. Mel Ott had a 323/188 split (and I love Mel Ott, no offense to him).

    All that gets worked into his park factors. Ebbetts had higher BPF's than either the Polo Grounds or Yankee Stadium and his OPS+'s are quite impressive.

  6. David Huemer Says:

    @5 Ott is the all time leader for HRs in one park.

  7. RIP Snider. He was a great autograph signer through the mail for his fans. I had wanted to write to him for a while, but apparently he had been sending a letter back with his fans telling them he was getting too old to keep signing for everyone. I respected his wishes and never sent to him, even though I knew he would have responded up until the moment he passed. Great man, baseball will miss him.

  8. My favorite tidbit about the Duke is that he is the home run leader for the entire decade of the 1950s.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/season_finder.cgi?type=b#ajax_result_table::none

  9. @4 and John's mention of the '64 Giants. I always think of their 7 hour, 23-inning game againts the Mets that year, in the 2nd half of a doubleheader (at least it wasn't the first half - can you imaging getting ready to play a 2nd game after a marathon like that).

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYN/NYN196405312.shtml

    Snider had only a pinch-hit appearance in this game. But there were some eye-catching stats. Like Mays going 1 for 10, and playing shortstop for 3 innings. And poor Tom Haller who caught all 23 innings. The first game catcher, Del Cranfall, was on the bench the whole game until pinch-hitting in the 23rd and driving in the go-ahead and winning run. I guess manager Al Dark knew exactly what he was doing, even if Haller probably didn't appreciate it at the time.

  10. Doug,

    Good points!

    Here's a photo from the '64 season with Mays & Snider that looks like it was taken in some alternate universe:

    http://www.corbisimages.com/Enlargement/U1420882.html

  11. Look at Duke Snider's year by year stats. Then look at Jim Edmonds year by year stats. Also, remember that Edmonds was a considerably better fielder and try to explain why so many people seem appalled at the notion of Edmonds in the hall of fame.
    Duke was an all time great who's legacy was somewhat diminished by being a contemporary of Willie Mays and Mickey Mantle. Had he played in any other era, he would be remembered for exactly how great he really was.

  12. @11. That is a weird photo, John. Snider looks half-way normal, but Mays seems to be going out of his way to mimic Duke's pose. Probably just having some laughs.

    Another thought about that Mets game. Catcher Crandall has just pinch-hit to drive in the go-ahead run. And, then, you don't keep him in the game to relieve the absolutely exhausted Haller with a chance to wrap things up in the bottom of the inning? I guess Dark was getting a little tired by then, just like everyone else.

  13. Doug,

    LOL!, I didn't even notice Mays' face the first time I saw that photo. Mays looks like a crazy person in that photo.

  14. John Q, thanks for posting a great photo!

  15. When I started following baseball in about 1965, Mantle was about done, Mays was MVP, and Snider was the Grecian Formula guy on TV commercials...Since then, I've learned that he was a pretty good ballplayer, too.

  16. Why don't Bonds or Aaron's combined numbers add up to their carer totals? I didn't check any other players but both of those guys are missing about 70 homers each.

  17. @12. Atom, I took up your challenge.

    Side-by-side, Snider and Edmonds do look similar, as evidenced by their 900 similarity scores. Edmonds does have about 40% more strikeouts than Snider in almost the same ABs. That is significant since Snider himself struck out quite a bit, especially for his era.

    Biggest differences (at a glance):
    - Gold Gloves: 8 vs. 0 for Edmonds (caveat: there were no Gold Gloves until 1957, Snider's last truly full-time season)
    - All-star selections: 8 vs. 4 for Snider
    - MVP Top 10s: 6 vs. 2 for Snider
    - Black/Gray ink: Snider, hands down
    - HOF Monitor/Standards: Snider, hands down

    So, why the big difference in results and recognition given the similar stats? Probably biggest reason is the difference between a 16 team and a 30 team universe. Edmonds has more competition. Also, aside from his season with the Mets, Snider played for good (and glamorous) teams his whole career. Edmonds also played for good teams in St Louis, but it's not quite the same as the Dodgers, and Edmonds only made it to 2 World Series, compared to 6 for Snider.

    One other thing to remember. It took a long time for Snider to make it to the hall, even with the credentials he had. If Edmonds does make it, I expect it will also be a long time coming.

  18. @17... are you sure you're adding correctly? Just I just took a look and they both seem fine...

  19. @17,@19
    Looks like he summed the games column and not the HR column. The descrepancy would be multi-homer games.

  20. Duke Snider was my Dad's favorite player. RIP.

  21. Lawrence Azrin Says:

    What's interesting about Duke Snider and the HOF is that Snider is pretty much the dividing line for center fielders being elected by the BBWAA to the HOF. If you're better than him (Cobb, Speaker, Dimaggio, Mantle, Mays), you're elected; if you are worse than him, you have to be selected by the Veteran's Committee to get in the HOF (Ashburn, Averill, Carey, etc...).

    The only exception to this is Kirby Puckett. Puckett clearly belongs in the level below Snider, but it looks like some writers credited Puckett with the decline phase his sudden retirement wiped out. Even with Snider's early thirties decline, due to injuries and his home park in LA hurting him, he ranks in the Top-100 in career WAR (67.5) for all players. Puckett is #325 (44.8), surrounded by HOF-center field Veteran's picks such as Earl Combs, Earl Averill, Larry Doby, and Edd Roush.

    Billy Hamilton is the only other CFer as good as Snider not elected by the BBWAA, but hardly any 19th century guys got elected by the writers.

    As many people here have commented on in the past, the writers have a higher standard for CFers, expecting them to be just as good offensively as corner outfielders, but giving them little or no credit for increased defensive value.

  22. Soundbounder Says:

    Some great tributes to Snider today in the Los Angeles and New York Times.

  23. Duke Snider was my first baseball hero. I saw him play at the Coliseum and at Dodger Stadium. He hit the first big-league home run that I ever saw. RIP Duke.

  24. Lawrence A,

    Good analysis on Center Fielders and the HOF.

    Essentially Snider is the dividing line between admission by the BBWAA or the Veteran's committee. It's going to be interesting what happens with Edmonds & Lofton who were basically on the same level as Snider. Edmonds & Lofton really should be in the HOF but they probably won't get much support.

    The Veteran's committee hasn't elected a CF in long time. I think Ritchie Ashburn was the last one around 1995.

    Jimmy Wynn is the only clear omission that I can think of as far as Center Fielders go in the HOF. Then There's about 6-7 borderline CF, W. Davis, Cedeno, Pinson, Lemon, Lynn, Burks, Murphy & B. Williams.

    It's going to be interesting to see how active players like A. Jones, Beltran, Damon & M. Cameron finish their careers.

  25. Mets fans will mourn the Duke as a former Met as well as a Brooklyn Dodgers great. In fact, we lost another old-time Mets this weekend--Greg Goossen.

  26. @#25

    I think by including Damon and Cameron you may be putting all of your emphasis on career value, and not looking enough at peak value. Snider had 6 seasons of 5.0+ WAR, Lofton had 6 and Edmonds had 7. Damon only has 1 such season, and while Cameron has 3, most of that is in defensive value, which the Hall has never emphasized for outfielders as Lawrence pointed out. Honestly, now that both are in their late 30's I don't see them sticking around to get their career WAR into the high 60's where the others reside. Damon would have to basically be a pitching version of Don Sutton and play long enough to get 3000 hits. Cameron won't make it to year two on the ballot, and considering that right now he's tied with Fred Lynn for career WAR, that's pretty reasonable.

    Beltran has 5 such seasons, and Andruw Jones has 7, but both may fall victim to the bias against players who peaked early rather than late. Beltran may have a comeback in him, which could make him a borderline argument, but by the time Andruw Jones gets on the ballot, he'll be somwhere around 12-15 years removed from his last good season, depending on how long he sticks around. Add in the facts that much of Jones' value was in defense, and the controversies that he would find himself involved in (Gold Club, late career weight gain), I don't see him making it.

  27. Lawrence Azrin Says:

    #25/... John Q Says: "Lawrence A, Good analysis on Center Fielders and the HOF..."

    Thanks John, what is interesting is all the CFers better than Snider the BBWAA elected (with the notable exception of Puckett) are all-time greats. It's as if you have to be a "no-brainer" to be elected by the writers as a centerfielder. For example, Dale Murphy is probably as good or better than at least half of CFers selected by the Veteran's, but peaked @23.2% in his 2nd year on the ballot. Snider is Murphy's 3rd "most similar" batter, BTW, Edmonds 5th.

    Jimmy WYNN - his stats got KILLED by:
    -playing much of his prime in the Astrodome
    - the second "deadball era"
    - having a lot of his value in high BB totals

    He's probably the best player to get _0_ HOF votes (along w/Cecil Cooper, Mike Cuellar ). He's a decent HOF candidate, but I'd put Jim Edmonds, Dale Murphy, and maybe Vida Pinson ahead of him. Why? - as #27/jim said, you can't judge strictly by career value and ignore the peak performance.

  28. Martin M Solomon Says:

    MULTIPLE ALLSTARS FROM SAME CITY: As a New Yorker growing up in 1950s, albeit a Yankees fan, I recognized there was something extraordinary about having 3 outstanding center fielders in the same city.

    1. While Dodgers and Giants were in NYC, Snider was AS 1950-56. Mays was AS 1954-57. Mantle was AS 1952-57. So in 1954-56 there were 3 AS at same position CF from teams in same city. Had it happened before?

    2. Yes! At shortstop. Reese AS 1946-54, Dark AS 1951-52, Rizzuto AS 1950-53. So 1951 and 52 had 3 AS from NYC @SS.

    3. Near miss in RF with Furillo 1952-53, Mueller 1954-55 and Bauer 1952-54. (Each year 52-54 2 made AS, but always a different pair.)

    4. At first base, had 3 AS in 1950s but never more than 2/year. Hodges 1949-55 and 57, Lockman 1952, Skowron 1957-61. So 2 in 1952 and 2 in 1957.

    5. This is not a complete list. Please add if desired.

    LINKS: Three links to NY Times on Duke Snider:

    1. Obituary:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/28/sports/baseball/28snider.html?ref=sports

    2. Column

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/28/sports/baseball/28anderson.html

    3. Blog with three links:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/01/sports/baseball/01leading.html?ref=sports

    A sad note. Until I read NYT obit, I was not aware of 1995 conviction of Duke Snider and Willie McCovey for failure to declare income from memorabilia shows. Each paid fine and got probation.

  29. @Jim Dunne 27,

    I didn't mean to imply that A. Jones, Beltran, Damon & M. Cameron would reach the Snider, Edmonds & Lofton zone, I just said it was going to be interesting to see how they finish their respective careers.

    A few years ago it looked like A. Jones was going to be a solid HOF candidate and then his career just fell off a cliff.

    Beltran was putting together a quiet HOF career by the all star break in 2009. He was 32 in the middle of one of his best seasons and then he got injured. It looked like he had a legitimate shot at 400 HR & 400 SB which only Barry Bonds has accomplished. I think that with his unbelievable sb% plus his Gold Gloves would have made him a solid HOF candidate.

    Cameron has been a very underrated player and will probably end up finishing his career among those other 8 borderline CF I listed.

    Damon probably will finish his career ranked somewhere at the top of those "8" borderline HOF candidates. But what really helps Damon is that he's only 429 hits away from 3000 and he's only about 200 runs scored short of 1775 which would rank him in the Top 20 for runs scored.

    Damon doesn't even have to be "Don Sutton". He just turned 37 so if he averages 140 hits & 70 runs scored the next three years, he could reach those milestones before he's 40. If you want to give him 4 more seasons then he can average about 107 hits & 50 runs scored and hit those marks before his 41st birthday.